1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:04,630 so you are the king of the jews 2 00:00:09,110 --> 00:00:07,430 king's your word well you are jesus of 3 00:00:11,030 --> 00:00:09,120 nazareth 4 00:00:12,789 --> 00:00:11,040 yes i am well that's what they're saying 5 00:00:14,390 --> 00:00:12,799 you are the king the messiah 6 00:00:16,310 --> 00:00:14,400 that's a clip from the movie the last 7 00:00:18,950 --> 00:00:16,320 temptation of christ and that's 8 00:00:20,790 --> 00:00:18,960 david bowie believe it or not playing 9 00:00:22,550 --> 00:00:20,800 pontius pilate 10 00:00:24,710 --> 00:00:22,560 you know i usually like to keep these 11 00:00:25,189 --> 00:00:24,720 introductions rather short and kind of 12 00:00:26,950 --> 00:00:25,199 let 13 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:26,960 all of us kind of figure this stuff out 14 00:00:31,910 --> 00:00:28,960 have our own experience with it but 15 00:00:33,430 --> 00:00:31,920 i kind of feel like i need an expanded 16 00:00:36,470 --> 00:00:33,440 introduction to this one 17 00:00:39,110 --> 00:00:36,480 because i've had a couple of interviews 18 00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:39,120 lately with some christian friends 19 00:00:43,030 --> 00:00:39,760 people i 20 00:00:46,549 --> 00:00:43,040 really really like honor and respect who 21 00:00:49,590 --> 00:00:46,559 seem to just not be grocking 22 00:00:52,389 --> 00:00:49,600 the basics of my understanding of this 23 00:00:56,229 --> 00:00:52,399 so let me kind of lay this out 24 00:00:59,270 --> 00:00:56,239 number one is i honor 25 00:01:01,430 --> 00:00:59,280 your spiritual experience your 26 00:01:02,630 --> 00:01:01,440 christ consciousness experience if 27 00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:02,640 that's what it is 28 00:01:05,990 --> 00:01:05,280 and not because i'm a particularly nice 29 00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:06,000 guy 30 00:01:12,390 --> 00:01:09,200 but because as you've heard the data 31 00:01:13,910 --> 00:01:12,400 compels me to understand that you are 32 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:13,920 more than a biological robot and 33 00:01:18,469 --> 00:01:15,360 meaningless universe 34 00:01:20,469 --> 00:01:18,479 that there is this extended realm 35 00:01:21,670 --> 00:01:20,479 and that you could very well be 36 00:01:23,990 --> 00:01:21,680 connecting with it 37 00:01:25,670 --> 00:01:24,000 in some way that makes christ 38 00:01:28,710 --> 00:01:25,680 consciousness 39 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:28,720 very real so i'm 40 00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:31,840 down with that but if you're going to 41 00:01:36,149 --> 00:01:33,040 connect 42 00:01:38,469 --> 00:01:36,159 your spiritual experience with 43 00:01:40,469 --> 00:01:38,479 history and history is tricky but let's 44 00:01:43,749 --> 00:01:40,479 just pretend there is this 45 00:01:44,630 --> 00:01:43,759 shared consensus reality that we call 46 00:01:46,550 --> 00:01:44,640 history 47 00:01:48,230 --> 00:01:46,560 and we all try and agree on let's just 48 00:01:49,350 --> 00:01:48,240 kind of make that a given 49 00:01:51,429 --> 00:01:49,360 if you're going to connect your 50 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:51,439 spiritual experience with some text 51 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:52,960 with some documents with some 52 00:01:58,630 --> 00:01:54,560 archaeological evidence 53 00:02:03,109 --> 00:01:58,640 well then that's a different discussion 54 00:02:06,550 --> 00:02:03,119 and here's the rub the gospels 55 00:02:07,510 --> 00:02:06,560 are not historical like if if you go to 56 00:02:09,669 --> 00:02:07,520 seminary 57 00:02:10,869 --> 00:02:09,679 and you study this stuff deeply you 58 00:02:12,550 --> 00:02:10,879 learn that pretty quickly 59 00:02:14,229 --> 00:02:12,560 i say okay yeah you know there's 60 00:02:16,229 --> 00:02:14,239 different translations there's 61 00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:16,239 contradictions there's conflicts all 62 00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:18,480 that kind of stuff even most christians 63 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:20,000 kind of get that they've kind of been 64 00:02:22,949 --> 00:02:21,280 beat up by that enough and there's 65 00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:22,959 enough popular books 66 00:02:26,630 --> 00:02:25,360 they get that they can't take their 67 00:02:29,910 --> 00:02:26,640 gospels 68 00:02:33,910 --> 00:02:29,920 literally but there is this lingering 69 00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:33,920 false impression among christians that 70 00:02:37,670 --> 00:02:36,400 you know despite those problems the 71 00:02:39,750 --> 00:02:37,680 gospels are still 72 00:02:40,949 --> 00:02:39,760 well basically historical i mean they 73 00:02:44,630 --> 00:02:40,959 kind of got the gist of 74 00:02:45,509 --> 00:02:44,640 it here is jesus meeting with pontius 75 00:02:47,509 --> 00:02:45,519 pilate 76 00:02:49,030 --> 00:02:47,519 i got to tell you go look at your 77 00:02:52,390 --> 00:02:49,040 gospels that is 78 00:02:53,430 --> 00:02:52,400 right out of the gospels but it didn't 79 00:02:56,710 --> 00:02:53,440 happen 80 00:02:58,550 --> 00:02:56,720 i mean the best evidence we have and 81 00:03:00,630 --> 00:02:58,560 and before i get to that evidence let me 82 00:03:03,350 --> 00:03:00,640 just stop right there because 83 00:03:03,990 --> 00:03:03,360 if what i'm about to present to you is 84 00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:04,000 true or even 85 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:06,000 close to true or leaning towards true 86 00:03:09,350 --> 00:03:07,120 then i want you to 87 00:03:10,790 --> 00:03:09,360 start wrapping your head around the 88 00:03:11,990 --> 00:03:10,800 implications of that because it's not 89 00:03:14,309 --> 00:03:12,000 just about the movie 90 00:03:16,550 --> 00:03:14,319 it's about the gospels and the gospels 91 00:03:18,790 --> 00:03:16,560 are talking about a scene from history 92 00:03:20,869 --> 00:03:18,800 jesus sitting down kind of hashing it 93 00:03:24,229 --> 00:03:20,879 out there with old pontius pilate 94 00:03:25,830 --> 00:03:24,239 if that didn't happen and it is 95 00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:25,840 in the gospels and it's reported by all 96 00:03:30,309 --> 00:03:28,480 the gospels just in different ways 97 00:03:32,789 --> 00:03:30,319 well then you see what i'm saying the 98 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:32,799 gospels are non-historical 99 00:03:36,550 --> 00:03:35,920 in a way that's much bigger than most 100 00:03:39,910 --> 00:03:36,560 christians 101 00:03:42,309 --> 00:03:39,920 think so why do we think that scene 102 00:03:45,830 --> 00:03:42,319 probably didn't happen 103 00:03:46,229 --> 00:03:45,840 well that gets us back to this guy i 104 00:03:49,190 --> 00:03:46,239 keep 105 00:03:51,509 --> 00:03:49,200 hammering on and talking about 106 00:03:53,990 --> 00:03:51,519 and that is josephus 107 00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:54,000 because as you already know from 108 00:03:58,070 --> 00:03:55,920 listening to the show or as you will 109 00:04:01,190 --> 00:03:58,080 know if you keep listening 110 00:04:02,070 --> 00:04:01,200 josephus is purely a propaganda agent 111 00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:02,080 for the romans 112 00:04:05,589 --> 00:04:04,720 pure and simple just follow the money on 113 00:04:07,750 --> 00:04:05,599 that one 114 00:04:10,509 --> 00:04:07,760 but he also in serving his role as 115 00:04:11,910 --> 00:04:10,519 propaganda agent is doing some 116 00:04:14,789 --> 00:04:11,920 quasi-semi-historical stuff 117 00:04:15,509 --> 00:04:14,799 and including in real history so that 118 00:04:17,830 --> 00:04:15,519 people 119 00:04:18,949 --> 00:04:17,840 believe him that's kind of one of the 120 00:04:20,390 --> 00:04:18,959 things you have to do as a propaganda 121 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:20,400 agent you have to mix the truth 122 00:04:25,749 --> 00:04:21,840 with the fiction otherwise it doesn't go 123 00:04:29,270 --> 00:04:25,759 down so well so he was pretty exhaustive 124 00:04:31,110 --> 00:04:29,280 about writing down every little event 125 00:04:32,390 --> 00:04:31,120 that happened now he might have spun him 126 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:32,400 in a different way but 127 00:04:35,749 --> 00:04:35,280 he got the gist of stuff that happens i 128 00:04:38,070 --> 00:04:35,759 mean 129 00:04:40,390 --> 00:04:38,080 take for example the aqueduct riot have 130 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:40,400 you ever heard of the aqueduct riot 131 00:04:43,670 --> 00:04:42,240 you ever heard about pontius pilate 132 00:04:44,870 --> 00:04:43,680 during the same period that we're 133 00:04:48,070 --> 00:04:44,880 talking about 134 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:48,080 putting down the aqueduct rebellion i 135 00:04:51,030 --> 00:04:49,360 bet you haven't 136 00:04:52,390 --> 00:04:51,040 because it's so obscure it's such a 137 00:04:54,150 --> 00:04:52,400 minor thing in history 138 00:04:55,909 --> 00:04:54,160 it's a bunch of jews that got together 139 00:04:58,870 --> 00:04:55,919 in the streets and they're 140 00:05:01,029 --> 00:04:58,880 protesting about the aqueduct and the 141 00:05:03,510 --> 00:05:01,039 really josephus's story i think 142 00:05:05,189 --> 00:05:03,520 is to show you how clever pontius pilate 143 00:05:07,110 --> 00:05:05,199 is and how clever the romans are 144 00:05:08,790 --> 00:05:07,120 that he infiltrates i mean this is like 145 00:05:11,270 --> 00:05:08,800 right out of our our history today 146 00:05:12,390 --> 00:05:11,280 but he infiltrates the crowd with his 147 00:05:14,629 --> 00:05:12,400 own goons 148 00:05:16,150 --> 00:05:14,639 who are not dressed as roman soldiers 149 00:05:16,629 --> 00:05:16,160 but are hiding the kind of clubs and 150 00:05:19,029 --> 00:05:16,639 sticks 151 00:05:20,390 --> 00:05:19,039 think antifa think you know all this 152 00:05:22,870 --> 00:05:20,400 crazy stuff 153 00:05:23,990 --> 00:05:22,880 and they turn on the protesters and 154 00:05:25,590 --> 00:05:24,000 create this big scene 155 00:05:27,350 --> 00:05:25,600 and they're getting beat up and some of 156 00:05:30,230 --> 00:05:27,360 them die all the rest but it's not a 157 00:05:33,749 --> 00:05:30,240 huge deal it's just not a huge deal 158 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:33,759 but it's the level of detail that 159 00:05:37,430 --> 00:05:36,720 josephus would go into to record all the 160 00:05:40,950 --> 00:05:37,440 events 161 00:05:44,469 --> 00:05:40,960 that happened now think for a minute 162 00:05:48,469 --> 00:05:44,479 about this event pontius pilate 163 00:05:50,390 --> 00:05:48,479 is the guy in judea he's the guy 164 00:05:52,070 --> 00:05:50,400 you know you think about gatekeepers in 165 00:05:53,670 --> 00:05:52,080 terms of you know modern thing like you 166 00:05:55,350 --> 00:05:53,680 want to talk to a celebrity or you want 167 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:55,360 to if you're in business you want to get 168 00:05:58,790 --> 00:05:57,120 to the ceo or whatever 169 00:06:00,550 --> 00:05:58,800 there's all these gatekeepers you never 170 00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:00,560 get a meeting 171 00:06:04,629 --> 00:06:03,120 jesus gets a meeting he gets a set with 172 00:06:07,189 --> 00:06:04,639 pontius pilate 173 00:06:09,029 --> 00:06:07,199 that my friend would have been recorded 174 00:06:12,629 --> 00:06:09,039 most certainly by 175 00:06:14,469 --> 00:06:12,639 josephus or by someone else but josephus 176 00:06:15,270 --> 00:06:14,479 has the most extensive history we can 177 00:06:19,510 --> 00:06:15,280 look at 178 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:19,520 recorded he would have recorded this 179 00:06:23,029 --> 00:06:21,600 and the fact that he doesn't suggests 180 00:06:25,909 --> 00:06:23,039 that it doesn't happen 181 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:25,919 now the content of the of the meeting 182 00:06:29,270 --> 00:06:26,479 also 183 00:06:29,590 --> 00:06:29,280 suggests that it just wouldn't happen 184 00:06:31,590 --> 00:06:29,600 it's 185 00:06:33,590 --> 00:06:31,600 out of context with what the romans 186 00:06:34,390 --> 00:06:33,600 would do and how they ran their whole 187 00:06:36,469 --> 00:06:34,400 show 188 00:06:38,390 --> 00:06:36,479 but that's almost another issue and gets 189 00:06:41,830 --> 00:06:38,400 into the whole propaganda stuff 190 00:06:44,070 --> 00:06:41,840 for a minute i just want to pull up on 191 00:06:47,189 --> 00:06:44,080 the fact that the gospels 192 00:06:48,469 --> 00:06:47,199 are non-historical they can't be relied 193 00:06:51,749 --> 00:06:48,479 on for a 194 00:06:54,469 --> 00:06:51,759 historical account of the life of this 195 00:06:56,150 --> 00:06:54,479 jesus character and i'm telling you 196 00:06:57,990 --> 00:06:56,160 josephus can't either 197 00:06:59,749 --> 00:06:58,000 but you're going to have to sort this 198 00:07:02,950 --> 00:06:59,759 stuff out and in that way 199 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:02,960 at least josephus is closer than the 200 00:07:05,749 --> 00:07:04,240 gospels are 201 00:07:07,589 --> 00:07:05,759 because i want to roll this clip a 202 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:07,599 little bit further i want to get to one 203 00:07:13,189 --> 00:07:11,120 final point which is to me the main 204 00:07:15,270 --> 00:07:13,199 point of this and the main point that 205 00:07:18,070 --> 00:07:15,280 i've been trying to get to 206 00:07:18,710 --> 00:07:18,080 with some of my guests but all this 207 00:07:20,790 --> 00:07:18,720 other 208 00:07:22,070 --> 00:07:20,800 christian gets in the way and 209 00:07:25,510 --> 00:07:22,080 you can't get to the real 210 00:07:29,110 --> 00:07:25,520 important point so listen to this 211 00:07:32,469 --> 00:07:29,120 the prophet daniel had a vision 212 00:07:33,670 --> 00:07:32,479 a tall statue at a gold head the silver 213 00:07:35,749 --> 00:07:33,680 shoulders 214 00:07:38,550 --> 00:07:35,759 the stomach was bronzed the legs where 215 00:07:42,230 --> 00:07:38,560 iron the feet were clay 216 00:07:46,950 --> 00:07:42,240 a stone was thrown the clay feet broke 217 00:07:52,710 --> 00:07:49,990 yes you see 218 00:07:53,189 --> 00:07:52,720 god through the stone the stone's me and 219 00:07:56,390 --> 00:07:53,199 robert 220 00:08:03,350 --> 00:07:59,670 so your kingdom or your world 221 00:08:07,189 --> 00:08:03,360 will replace rome now first 222 00:08:08,790 --> 00:08:07,199 this isn't exactly in the gospels 223 00:08:10,629 --> 00:08:08,800 but this is the strange way that 224 00:08:14,230 --> 00:08:10,639 christianity works 225 00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:14,240 most christians understand this to be 226 00:08:17,270 --> 00:08:16,639 a fundamental part of what happened 227 00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:17,280 right 228 00:08:21,589 --> 00:08:20,160 so whether you can point to a particular 229 00:08:23,990 --> 00:08:21,599 line in the gospels 230 00:08:25,990 --> 00:08:24,000 most christians understand that this is 231 00:08:28,710 --> 00:08:26,000 what it was about it was about 232 00:08:30,070 --> 00:08:28,720 jesus talking to power talking to rome 233 00:08:31,510 --> 00:08:30,080 and say we're going to bring your ass 234 00:08:34,469 --> 00:08:31,520 down 235 00:08:34,949 --> 00:08:34,479 my followers will eventually bring you 236 00:08:38,230 --> 00:08:34,959 down 237 00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:38,240 the mustard seed will grow and rome will 238 00:08:41,110 --> 00:08:39,360 be destroyed 239 00:08:43,029 --> 00:08:41,120 now this is exactly the kind of stuff 240 00:08:44,149 --> 00:08:43,039 that whitley strieber puts forth in this 241 00:08:46,870 --> 00:08:44,159 book we're going to talk about 242 00:08:47,990 --> 00:08:46,880 today's show and it's really really 243 00:08:50,949 --> 00:08:48,000 important 244 00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:50,959 to figure out whether that's true 245 00:08:57,509 --> 00:08:53,440 because i think it's not only 246 00:09:00,790 --> 00:08:57,519 not true it's actually completely 247 00:09:02,550 --> 00:09:00,800 the opposite it is a scripted social 248 00:09:05,509 --> 00:09:02,560 engineering project 249 00:09:07,509 --> 00:09:05,519 intended to take you in exactly the 250 00:09:09,509 --> 00:09:07,519 opposite direction 251 00:09:11,350 --> 00:09:09,519 i can't get all the way there now but 252 00:09:13,670 --> 00:09:11,360 stick around and you'll hear 253 00:09:15,269 --> 00:09:13,680 in shows that come up what really 254 00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:15,279 happened but i'll give you the short 255 00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:15,839 version 256 00:09:22,230 --> 00:09:18,880 the romans co-opted christianity and 257 00:09:24,550 --> 00:09:22,240 used it to essentially reboot the roman 258 00:09:26,550 --> 00:09:24,560 empire in a way that allowed the roman 259 00:09:29,750 --> 00:09:26,560 empire to decline 260 00:09:33,269 --> 00:09:29,760 while it wasn't really declining 261 00:09:35,590 --> 00:09:33,279 it was still business as usual 262 00:09:36,310 --> 00:09:35,600 through this little entity that they 263 00:09:40,030 --> 00:09:36,320 created 264 00:09:43,509 --> 00:09:40,040 called the church the pope 265 00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:43,519 christianity that's why this history 266 00:09:47,590 --> 00:09:46,080 is so important to me and that's why if 267 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:47,600 you listen to this show you know once i 268 00:09:52,070 --> 00:09:49,600 kind of get into something 269 00:09:52,949 --> 00:09:52,080 it's hard for me to get off it but 270 00:09:54,550 --> 00:09:52,959 that's why 271 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:54,560 if you're gonna stick around with me 272 00:10:00,150 --> 00:09:56,080 you're gonna hear 273 00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:00,160 a bunch more shows on this topic 274 00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:02,320 hopefully they won't all be as 275 00:10:06,710 --> 00:10:03,279 contentious 276 00:10:08,949 --> 00:10:06,720 as this one with a guy i still 277 00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:08,959 stand behind everything i said i think 278 00:10:13,509 --> 00:10:09,920 is one of the 279 00:10:15,910 --> 00:10:13,519 most important people in our history 280 00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:15,920 and someone who i greatly admire for his 281 00:10:19,750 --> 00:10:17,440 non-linear thinking 282 00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:19,760 i just think he's kind of not done his 283 00:10:22,630 --> 00:10:21,680 homework on this history and i think it 284 00:10:25,269 --> 00:10:22,640 it comes through 285 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:25,279 but that's okay like i like to say way 286 00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:26,160 way higher 287 00:10:30,470 --> 00:10:28,880 than hall of fame batting average and 288 00:10:31,509 --> 00:10:30,480 whitley strieber is definitely in the 289 00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:31,519 hall of fame 290 00:10:34,630 --> 00:10:34,000 here's a couple of clips from the show 291 00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:34,640 well i 292 00:10:38,150 --> 00:10:36,240 i don't even know why we're talking 293 00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:38,160 about it it has 294 00:10:42,310 --> 00:10:40,399 almost nothing to do with my book well 295 00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:42,320 it has it has everything to do with your 296 00:10:45,509 --> 00:10:42,880 book 297 00:10:46,069 --> 00:10:45,519 the only references i made i was well 298 00:10:49,509 --> 00:10:46,079 aware of 299 00:10:55,670 --> 00:10:52,630 and in fact in that time 300 00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:55,680 no one was writing history as we think 301 00:10:59,990 --> 00:10:56,880 of it now that hadn't 302 00:11:02,470 --> 00:11:00,000 not even been invented yet so why are we 303 00:11:03,190 --> 00:11:02,480 talking about josephus i agree because 304 00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:03,200 because you should 305 00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:05,279 i don't care there's some really 306 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:06,320 important points 307 00:11:11,829 --> 00:11:10,000 of connection between what you're saying 308 00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:11,839 and what i'm saying i mean what you're 309 00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:13,600 saying about constantine 310 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:15,920 what you're saying about the romans 311 00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:17,200 co-opting 312 00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:20,399 the religion is is central to what i'm 313 00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:20,880 saying 314 00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:22,079 you're just taking in a slightly 315 00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:23,519 different direction and a lot of times 316 00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:25,760 that's how it is when people talk about 317 00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:28,880 even with people are are in sync the 318 00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:30,240 differences are what get 319 00:11:34,389 --> 00:11:32,480 kind of exaggerated like the message of 320 00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:34,399 jesus love everyone and tell the truth 321 00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,560 the message of jesus about humility and 322 00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:38,240 compassion about the boot 323 00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:40,000 i mean that's all we really don't indeed 324 00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:41,120 talk about anything more than that 325 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:41,760 that's the most 326 00:11:45,269 --> 00:11:43,360 important part and then the fact that 327 00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:45,279 the romans tried to co-opt that in an 328 00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:46,399 evil way 329 00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:48,320 we are essentially we're in agreement on 330 00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:49,600 those important things but it isn't 331 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:51,519 going to sound like that and that's okay 332 00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:53,200 all right thank you very much for having 333 00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:55,200 me on 334 00:12:02,710 --> 00:11:59,839 okay you are very welcome 335 00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:02,720 we'll do it again sometime soon welcome 336 00:12:06,470 --> 00:12:04,160 to skeptica where we explore 337 00:12:09,030 --> 00:12:06,480 controversial science and spirituality 338 00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:09,040 with leading researchers thinkers and 339 00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:11,200 their critics i'm your host alex sacaris 340 00:12:14,949 --> 00:12:12,399 and today 341 00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:14,959 i am very excited to have whitley 342 00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:17,519 strieber back here on skeptico 343 00:12:23,509 --> 00:12:20,560 whitley has a new book out jesus 344 00:12:24,790 --> 00:12:23,519 a new vision we're going to talk a 345 00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:24,800 little bit about that because that's 346 00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:26,560 certainly a topic 347 00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:28,880 i've been talking a lot about lately on 348 00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:30,399 this show and you've heard a lot of 349 00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:31,760 interviews on 350 00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:33,920 that roman history so it was really 351 00:12:37,750 --> 00:12:35,760 exciting to me the last time that 352 00:12:40,310 --> 00:12:37,760 whitley and i talked and i heard that he 353 00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:40,320 had this new book on this topic so we've 354 00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:42,320 been exchanging some things and 355 00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:45,120 that might get pretty interesting but i 356 00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:45,760 also hope 357 00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:48,800 to broaden the dialogue 358 00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:52,000 on that for example how 359 00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:55,279 has his contact experience 360 00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:58,560 influenced his spirituality how has his 361 00:13:01,829 --> 00:13:00,880 after death communication experiences 362 00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:01,839 with ann 363 00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,120 how has that affected this larger 364 00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:07,360 question of spirituality 365 00:13:15,990 --> 00:13:12,000 and more generally i guess how has this 366 00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:16,000 amazing life that he's had 367 00:13:20,949 --> 00:13:19,040 affected his spirituality you know 368 00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:20,959 the first time i had whitley on the show 369 00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,480 i kind of took a minute to remind 370 00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:27,990 that just i don't know how else to put 371 00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:28,240 it 372 00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:31,120 what an important person in history 373 00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:32,560 whitley represents and 374 00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:34,320 you know as we chat a little bit about 375 00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:35,600 before 376 00:13:39,590 --> 00:13:38,079 we cannot and i know whitley would not 377 00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:39,600 assume 378 00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,880 that that is accidental i mean in a lot 379 00:13:47,030 --> 00:13:44,000 of ways 380 00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,040 whitley is our first contactee 381 00:13:50,310 --> 00:13:49,040 i mean he's not technically the first 382 00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:50,320 contactee 383 00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:52,800 but in a lot of ways the way this whole 384 00:13:58,550 --> 00:13:54,880 thing has rolled out the way that 385 00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,560 the our our relationship with 386 00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:00,480 what whitley calls the others the way 387 00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:03,040 that whole thing has evolved in our 388 00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,120 culture 389 00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:06,959 whitley is really kind of the first 390 00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:08,240 contactee and 391 00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,600 if you can wrap your head around that 392 00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,680 for a minute then the other thing i'd 393 00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:13,600 ask you to wrap your head around 394 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:17,680 is the other contacts 395 00:14:22,710 --> 00:14:20,880 that he's made in that world you know i 396 00:14:25,030 --> 00:14:22,720 was just reminded i was listening to an 397 00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:25,040 interview uh with whitley in preparation 398 00:14:29,829 --> 00:14:26,240 for this 399 00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:29,839 interview and all the people that he's 400 00:14:34,629 --> 00:14:32,800 influenced through his work through his 401 00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:34,639 life through his experience 402 00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:37,279 and so many intersections in you know 403 00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,240 strange ways i mean 404 00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:40,160 jacques villa asks him to write the 405 00:14:45,030 --> 00:14:41,839 introduction to his book 406 00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:45,040 uh he writes a book with uh dr jeffrey 407 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:47,040 cripel who we're all associated with 408 00:14:49,269 --> 00:14:48,480 there's a whole other world there's the 409 00:14:50,949 --> 00:14:49,279 whole world of 410 00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:50,959 comparative religion and they write this 411 00:14:55,829 --> 00:14:52,880 book the supernatural 412 00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:55,839 and um and then i was mentioning to 413 00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:57,199 whitley you know i have an interview 414 00:15:02,230 --> 00:14:58,639 coming up with 415 00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:02,240 ralph blumenthal who is 416 00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:04,399 kind of very cool guy new york times 417 00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,320 reporter and just has written an amazing 418 00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:08,639 important biography about john mack 419 00:15:15,030 --> 00:15:12,000 i mean whitley's all all over this thing 420 00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:15,040 all over that that history of john mack 421 00:15:19,030 --> 00:15:18,720 and bud hopkins and you know leslie kane 422 00:15:21,110 --> 00:15:19,040 and 423 00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:21,120 you know everybody in that it's 424 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:22,959 whitley's popping up again and again 425 00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:26,320 so i just think it's such an opportunity 426 00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,440 i'm so excited 427 00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:28,880 whenever i get a chance to talk to this 428 00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:31,199 guy because i'm talking to someone 429 00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:34,639 who is is chosen to be this kind of 430 00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:37,120 important person who's carrying this 431 00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:37,759 message 432 00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:40,079 but is also in the kind of here and now 433 00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:40,880 real world 434 00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:43,680 has written all these amazing books and 435 00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:44,160 then 436 00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:47,279 has interacted with all these other 437 00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:48,480 people who are 438 00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:52,000 on the the edge of 439 00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:53,600 this new understanding that we're trying 440 00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:55,519 to wrap our head around now that doesn't 441 00:15:56,949 --> 00:15:55,920 mean 442 00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:56,959 i'm going to agree with them on 443 00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:59,199 everything probably we're going to have 444 00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,959 some a lot of points of agreement 445 00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:02,399 disagreement uh 446 00:16:06,949 --> 00:16:05,120 today but i'm not on the bigger pictures 447 00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:06,959 not on the bigger picture items because 448 00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,279 it's just he's just too awesome whitley 449 00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:13,360 so glad you're here thank you so much 450 00:16:17,749 --> 00:16:14,800 for joining me welcome here 451 00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:17,759 welcome back well thanks for having me 452 00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:18,880 as always 453 00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:22,079 it's always fun to talk together we're 454 00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:25,440 we are sort of joined at the hip 455 00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:26,800 intellectually i think 456 00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:28,240 i had a lot of fun when you were on 457 00:16:33,030 --> 00:16:30,320 dreamland and i've always had a 458 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:33,040 wonderful time on skeptico too 459 00:16:36,389 --> 00:16:35,440 well thanks so let's start jumping right 460 00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:36,399 in on 461 00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:38,560 this book tell us about this new book 462 00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,680 you have 463 00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:41,600 it you know it was something that i 464 00:16:47,110 --> 00:16:43,920 wasn't really expecting to come 465 00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:47,120 from you in many ways but let's dive 466 00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,480 into it 467 00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:50,399 well i have a bad habit of not 468 00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:52,639 fulfilling expectations 469 00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,920 um i am the author of 470 00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:58,399 quite a range of non-fiction books and 471 00:17:02,949 --> 00:16:59,279 people 472 00:17:05,029 --> 00:17:02,959 forget that uh they they think of me 473 00:17:07,189 --> 00:17:05,039 people think have you don't think of me 474 00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:07,199 as being related to 475 00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:10,240 the whole alien ufo controversy but i 476 00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:13,520 also published super storm which 477 00:17:19,510 --> 00:17:16,640 became a meme in the world and 478 00:17:21,189 --> 00:17:19,520 war day before that which did also in 479 00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:21,199 its time 480 00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:24,640 uh i published a uh mixed facts 481 00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:26,160 fact and fiction those are all mixed 482 00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:30,080 facts and fiction books and nature's end 483 00:17:37,029 --> 00:17:33,440 and uh so you know i have a 484 00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,470 uh habit of moving in 485 00:17:47,270 --> 00:17:43,679 from one area to another and this 486 00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:47,280 book came to me because i 487 00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:51,600 am i am deeply connected with my wife at 488 00:17:56,710 --> 00:17:52,480 this point 489 00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:56,720 and in a in it it's almost 490 00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:59,280 it's the same dialogue that we had when 491 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:00,240 she was physically 492 00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:03,440 alive with the difference that her 493 00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:04,400 perspective 494 00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:08,400 is very much more 495 00:18:17,430 --> 00:18:13,520 evolved than it was she knows a lot more 496 00:18:20,549 --> 00:18:17,440 and we began to dialogue about 497 00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:20,559 jesus about a year and a half ago she 498 00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:21,360 was 499 00:18:24,710 --> 00:18:23,840 extremely interested in jesus when she 500 00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:24,720 was 501 00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,000 alive physically and one of the 502 00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:31,280 things she hoped most to do was to find 503 00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:32,240 out what had 504 00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,360 actually had happened because she didn't 505 00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:36,880 feel 506 00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:40,960 that the that the narratives 507 00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:44,080 that are available to us are 508 00:18:48,950 --> 00:18:47,200 correct that they are not the story 509 00:18:50,789 --> 00:18:48,960 that there is another story that was 510 00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:50,799 buried somehow 511 00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:54,240 or misunderstood in in 512 00:19:00,650 --> 00:18:57,760 in in profoundly fundamental ways 513 00:19:02,390 --> 00:19:00,660 but we could never get to 514 00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:02,400 [Music] 515 00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:06,640 the right place to understand what was 516 00:19:12,870 --> 00:19:10,240 missing but now with the use of my 517 00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:12,880 implant which i have talked about on 518 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:16,160 your show before but i'll just briefly 519 00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:18,160 reiterate this for those who don't know 520 00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:20,160 about it it was put in my 521 00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:23,200 ear in 1989 522 00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,960 it has something to do with 523 00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:26,480 communicating not with 524 00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:29,600 necessarily with aliens but certainly 525 00:19:34,549 --> 00:19:33,280 with our own dead it is associated in 526 00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:34,559 some way 527 00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:37,760 with an electronic voice phenomenon 528 00:19:42,789 --> 00:19:39,280 researcher 529 00:19:45,669 --> 00:19:42,799 called constantine rodave i was 530 00:19:48,150 --> 00:19:45,679 told that when the its functionality was 531 00:19:50,789 --> 00:19:48,160 explained to me 532 00:19:52,870 --> 00:19:50,799 by two rather mysterious people who have 533 00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:52,880 popped up in my life from time to time 534 00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:53,520 about 535 00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:56,640 six months ago so 536 00:20:02,070 --> 00:19:59,679 he apparently designed this either while 537 00:20:06,149 --> 00:20:02,080 he was physically alive or 538 00:20:07,350 --> 00:20:06,159 afterwards and it is there and it 539 00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:07,360 facilitates 540 00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:11,520 communication i it used to open up a 541 00:20:14,310 --> 00:20:12,320 little slit 542 00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:14,320 in my right eye and words would go 543 00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,000 through that slit 544 00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:18,720 and these words would not would be 545 00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,200 moving too fast to see 546 00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,320 to comprehend the individually but 547 00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:26,240 i was ex it was explained to me that 548 00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:28,480 they would move into my that they were 549 00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:29,039 drawn 550 00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,640 from my own sort of unconscious 551 00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:35,600 and were like an enhanced uh into 552 00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:43,110 however i lost the sight in my right eye 553 00:20:46,230 --> 00:20:44,080 by 554 00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:46,240 working too hard i'd learn to see into a 555 00:20:48,149 --> 00:20:47,919 parallel universe and folks you're going 556 00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:48,159 to 557 00:20:55,750 --> 00:20:52,240 don't live a normal life 558 00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,760 so just suck it up anyway 559 00:20:58,950 --> 00:20:57,600 and you do let me let me interject 560 00:21:01,590 --> 00:20:58,960 something because you actually touched 561 00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,600 on an important point 562 00:21:05,430 --> 00:21:03,120 that i wanted to talk about when you 563 00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:05,440 said you don't lie 564 00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:09,120 that's been my general perception 565 00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:12,320 about you yeah it comes through it comes 566 00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:14,240 through in kind of an intuitive sense 567 00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:16,000 but it also just comes through in the 568 00:21:19,990 --> 00:21:17,520 way you present yourself 569 00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:20,000 and the way you stand up to criticism 570 00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:20,720 the way you 571 00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:22,480 which you are battle tested over the 572 00:21:27,190 --> 00:21:24,320 years the way you stand 573 00:21:28,390 --> 00:21:27,200 up to recalling events and other 574 00:21:30,789 --> 00:21:28,400 people's versions 575 00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:30,799 of those events you know like again 576 00:21:33,669 --> 00:21:31,679 we're going to talk about 577 00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:33,679 maybe we'll talk about the whole uh john 578 00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:35,360 mack thing but you know the bud hopkins 579 00:21:38,149 --> 00:21:36,400 thing and you say well 580 00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:38,159 here's what happened you know and it was 581 00:21:40,870 --> 00:21:40,000 kind of professional jealousy and 582 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:40,880 sometimes 583 00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,880 authors get into that and i understand 584 00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,960 it and you just lay it out and it just 585 00:21:48,149 --> 00:21:46,080 seems to be true 586 00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:48,159 so this is such an important point 587 00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:49,280 though let me broaden it 588 00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:52,240 because what you're saying is impossible 589 00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:52,720 to 590 00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:55,840 uh literally comprehend and process 591 00:21:59,190 --> 00:21:58,559 in kind of a normal way this guy got an 592 00:22:01,750 --> 00:21:59,200 implant 593 00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:01,760 after having contact with aliens and now 594 00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,480 he's telling us 595 00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,480 well the implant isn't just to talk to 596 00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,400 aliens it's also to talk to dead people 597 00:22:10,310 --> 00:22:07,919 and it's connected with this other guy 598 00:22:12,870 --> 00:22:10,320 who developed it while he was living or 599 00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,880 dead i don't know which one 600 00:22:17,029 --> 00:22:15,039 when you say suck it up i'm telling the 601 00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:17,039 truth boy i love that 602 00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,240 because i don't know uh you know 603 00:22:23,430 --> 00:22:22,799 i don't know if this is real on one 604 00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:23,440 level 605 00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:27,280 but i know it as much as i can know 606 00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:29,520 that what you're telling me is your 607 00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:30,880 attempt to be 608 00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,039 as honest genuine real as you can be 609 00:22:40,630 --> 00:22:38,159 um yes within all this stuff and i think 610 00:22:44,310 --> 00:22:40,640 we also have to understand that that 611 00:22:46,070 --> 00:22:44,320 we cannot possibly understand 612 00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:46,080 all these dimensions and realms that 613 00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:47,760 we're talking about so of course it 614 00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:48,280 should be 615 00:22:52,390 --> 00:22:50,799 incomprehensible if it's if it's not 616 00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,400 incomprehensible we're probably not 617 00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:54,960 getting very close to it 618 00:22:59,029 --> 00:22:56,799 i think we're getting a lot closer 619 00:23:01,590 --> 00:22:59,039 because i'm not the only 620 00:23:04,070 --> 00:23:01,600 life unfolding right now that is 621 00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:04,080 testament to the fact that there is 622 00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,520 much more to human experience than 623 00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:09,840 simply living in the material world and 624 00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,360 moving through time 625 00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,440 but let me get back to what i was saying 626 00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:15,919 about the genesis of the book 627 00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:19,200 uh ann and i will 628 00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:21,919 we'll dialogue there's a specific time 629 00:23:25,669 --> 00:23:22,559 of day 630 00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:25,679 for it which in some uh 631 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,840 yoga traditions is known as brahma 632 00:23:31,669 --> 00:23:29,280 maherta time 633 00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:31,679 that's about three or four between three 634 00:23:37,350 --> 00:23:33,360 and four o'clock in the morning 635 00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:37,360 i get up every morning and every morning 636 00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:40,080 we often we dialogue we didn't this 637 00:23:44,310 --> 00:23:40,960 morning but we 638 00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:44,320 we often do and the book came out of 639 00:23:48,789 --> 00:23:45,279 that 640 00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:51,990 gained knowledge and i began to be able 641 00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:52,960 to access 642 00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:56,159 access that knowledge using the 643 00:24:00,070 --> 00:23:59,600 implant as my tool because it's a it's a 644 00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:00,080 really 645 00:24:06,549 --> 00:24:04,080 wonderful research device uh it will 646 00:24:08,549 --> 00:24:06,559 what will happen is if you have an open 647 00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:08,559 question 648 00:24:15,750 --> 00:24:12,000 using some kind of organized 649 00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:15,760 system of synchronicity the answer 650 00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,039 will soon fall into your hands 651 00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:22,080 not an answer from the beyond but the 652 00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:23,600 answer that's available 653 00:24:29,909 --> 00:24:26,799 in this reality from a book or 654 00:24:31,669 --> 00:24:29,919 something somebody says or something you 655 00:24:35,029 --> 00:24:31,679 meet or something like that 656 00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:35,039 to the extent that i use it 657 00:24:39,590 --> 00:24:37,200 it's high i've got it to the point where 658 00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:39,600 this is a highly organized research 659 00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:40,960 methodology 660 00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:44,320 i will i will 661 00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:48,720 open questions and then within usually 662 00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:52,640 hours to days one way or another 663 00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:55,919 i'll be i'll end up 664 00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:59,600 able to address this 665 00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,679 and whatever the question was and that 666 00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:02,880 was how the book was 667 00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:11,110 find a new 668 00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:14,799 insights into the gospel of thomas the 669 00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:15,600 gospel of 670 00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:18,640 mary the actual 671 00:25:24,870 --> 00:25:21,840 what happened to jesus how his 672 00:25:28,789 --> 00:25:24,880 his story relates to 673 00:25:31,909 --> 00:25:28,799 the or was related to the stories of the 674 00:25:36,710 --> 00:25:31,919 solar deities of the roman world 675 00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:36,720 and how he is jesus the teacher 676 00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:40,240 was taken over by a constantine 677 00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:43,600 and turned into jesus the god because 678 00:25:49,830 --> 00:25:46,400 the roman gods were failing 679 00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:49,840 the to protect rome which had been 680 00:25:56,549 --> 00:25:54,080 cursed by plagues and invasions and 681 00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:56,559 inflation and climate change that none 682 00:26:00,470 --> 00:25:58,320 of which they understood 683 00:26:01,750 --> 00:26:00,480 only they were praying to their gods for 684 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:01,760 support and 685 00:26:07,669 --> 00:26:04,960 what they didn't know was the roman 686 00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:07,679 climate optimum was ending 687 00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:10,960 and so they were being uh 688 00:26:16,950 --> 00:26:14,000 visited by terrible droughts 689 00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:16,960 and they were being weakened because 690 00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:17,919 they had not 691 00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:21,440 um enough food and the result was that 692 00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:22,240 this very 693 00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:25,360 these very crowded little communities 694 00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:28,720 uh all of them linked together by sea 695 00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:31,840 and by roads that the romans had built 696 00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,799 were becoming infected in ways that had 697 00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:36,559 never happened before and they didn't 698 00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:37,840 understand because their 699 00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:39,840 immune systems were compromised by 700 00:26:44,310 --> 00:26:41,039 hunger 701 00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:44,320 and these in starting in the age of 702 00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:47,520 anton uh uh the antonine age 703 00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,480 when marcus aurelius was emperor the 704 00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:52,080 first plague the antonine 705 00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:54,400 plague started and it went on and on 706 00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:57,520 with one plague after another 707 00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:00,720 until they were desperate and 708 00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:05,200 losing faith the temples being abandoned 709 00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:08,799 the population of the empire dropping 710 00:27:13,029 --> 00:27:12,400 germans pressing from from from the east 711 00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:13,039 because 712 00:27:16,070 --> 00:27:14,960 they in turn were being pressed by the 713 00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:16,080 magars 714 00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:17,840 east of them who were in turn being 715 00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:19,679 pressed by the huns 716 00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:22,720 who were had left central asia 717 00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,799 because the drought was destroying the 718 00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:26,000 forage that their 719 00:27:32,470 --> 00:27:29,200 horses depended on so all of this 720 00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:32,480 enormous complex 721 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:36,399 series of events combined together 722 00:27:43,909 --> 00:27:40,480 to cause constantine to think 723 00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:43,919 we need a new god 724 00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:48,000 because the empire is being abandoned by 725 00:27:51,830 --> 00:27:51,039 its own people because its gods don't 726 00:27:53,590 --> 00:27:51,840 work and 727 00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:53,600 you have to understand in those days 728 00:27:58,549 --> 00:27:55,039 there was no such 729 00:28:02,470 --> 00:27:58,559 thing as a the idea of a of a 730 00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:02,480 some kind of split between religion and 731 00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:04,720 church and state it didn't even exist 732 00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:06,320 church and state 733 00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:09,840 were integrated completely integrated 734 00:28:15,669 --> 00:28:12,960 there was it was one system and 735 00:28:17,830 --> 00:28:15,679 the state part a big part of the state's 736 00:28:21,750 --> 00:28:17,840 job 737 00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:21,760 was to engage the gods on behalf of the 738 00:28:25,510 --> 00:28:22,480 people 739 00:28:29,590 --> 00:28:25,520 and it did that through its priesthoods 740 00:28:32,389 --> 00:28:29,600 and its temples and sacrifice 741 00:28:35,350 --> 00:28:32,399 and real sacrifice i mean the the the 742 00:28:37,990 --> 00:28:35,360 temple sacrifices were very demanding 743 00:28:39,750 --> 00:28:38,000 they weren't just uh go in and drop off 744 00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:39,760 a dead pigeon i mean you 745 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:42,960 you had to sacrifice for sure 746 00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:46,240 so all of that was happening and 747 00:28:53,669 --> 00:28:49,279 i found in 748 00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:53,679 that history a thread of truth i think 749 00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:56,640 that's in the jesus book of what really 750 00:29:00,220 --> 00:28:57,440 happened 751 00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:00,230 to this man and to 752 00:29:06,549 --> 00:29:01,840 [Music] 753 00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:06,559 his story after he left this world 754 00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:11,360 okay so here's the deal though 755 00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:14,559 and let me make sure i i understand i i 756 00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:17,600 asked this question rather than i assume 757 00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:20,720 you're not asking us to accept any of 758 00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:21,279 that 759 00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:25,200 as revelatory right you're you're saying 760 00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:26,559 you got this 761 00:29:31,590 --> 00:29:31,279 aside the means the technical means of 762 00:29:33,750 --> 00:29:31,600 it 763 00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:33,760 you know and we'll say and then you're 764 00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:35,600 saying you did 765 00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:37,679 research that you would just put on par 766 00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:39,440 with anyone else who would 767 00:29:43,029 --> 00:29:41,600 research and write a book of this right 768 00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:43,039 kind and then you stand by that you 769 00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:44,000 don't say 770 00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:47,120 you can't you can't question me because 771 00:29:51,830 --> 00:29:49,840 it came in my download in there right no 772 00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:51,840 download it's not like that 773 00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:53,039 you get my point we're not going to have 774 00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:55,039 much of a discussion if you're going to 775 00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,120 say well that's that's what i was told 776 00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,960 so i know this is true right i mean it 777 00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,840 has to 778 00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:02,080 well listen i've heard so many people 779 00:30:07,190 --> 00:30:04,080 with things that they've been told 780 00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,200 that turned out not to be true i don't 781 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:10,080 do that i don't get downloads that's not 782 00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:11,520 how it works 783 00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:15,279 what i do is i dialogue and 784 00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:18,880 the dialogue results in 785 00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:21,919 a journey of research in this world and 786 00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:24,159 that's where the information comes from 787 00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:27,360 it's it's really 788 00:30:34,549 --> 00:30:31,760 a method of finding the right 789 00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,559 needles in the haystack and that's why 790 00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:36,399 jesus in new vision's got a long 791 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:39,679 or a long bibliography okay because 792 00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:42,559 many books are are referenced in it it's 793 00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:43,600 it's not 794 00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:45,919 downloaded from the beyond right it's 795 00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:47,760 fallible 796 00:30:52,789 --> 00:30:50,799 well 797 00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:52,799 it's it's opened it's open to being 798 00:30:55,669 --> 00:30:53,840 fallible because it's 799 00:30:57,029 --> 00:30:55,679 open to discussion like any book would 800 00:30:59,029 --> 00:30:57,039 be any scholar 801 00:31:01,830 --> 00:30:59,039 book of scholarship would be of course 802 00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,840 that that's that's my only point 803 00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,320 i i don't agree with a lot of the 804 00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:06,159 conclusions that you've come to 805 00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:09,919 and i i to kind of cut to the chase 806 00:31:13,350 --> 00:31:12,880 kind of thing i want to bring up one 807 00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:13,360 quote 808 00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:15,360 that i sent you that i think puts an 809 00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:18,080 entirely different spin on this 810 00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:20,480 and is absolutely critical to this 811 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:21,440 understanding 812 00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:24,080 and i just cannot get over the fact that 813 00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:24,640 so 814 00:31:30,950 --> 00:31:28,320 scholars 815 00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,960 have completely misunderstood and 816 00:31:34,149 --> 00:31:32,399 misinterpreted that and that's from 817 00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:34,159 josephus let me pull it up on the screen 818 00:31:37,350 --> 00:31:36,240 do you want to remind people who 819 00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:37,360 josephus 820 00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:46,070 a jewish scholar and historian 821 00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:49,360 who became he 822 00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,640 became famous in the roman world because 823 00:32:10,549 --> 00:31:53,760 he 824 00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:10,559 this happened vespasian honored him 825 00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:14,559 and gave him a very special place in 826 00:32:19,830 --> 00:32:17,919 his court especially for a jew because 827 00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,840 of the fact that 828 00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:22,000 the jew the jewish rebellion was 829 00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:23,600 underway at the time 830 00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,559 and the romans were during this whole 831 00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:28,480 period they were in the process 832 00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:33,120 of destroying the jewish 833 00:32:36,789 --> 00:32:35,440 province as it existed pulling the 834 00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,799 temple down 835 00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:39,120 and dispersing the jews around the whole 836 00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:40,799 empire and forbidding them to even live 837 00:32:45,350 --> 00:32:42,000 in jerusalem 838 00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:45,360 and then later under the emperor hadrian 839 00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,159 it was 840 00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,559 even its name was changed to alia 841 00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,080 capitolina 842 00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,559 but that was after this time the point 843 00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:53,679 is this 844 00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:02,310 josephus became an important figure and 845 00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:04,080 also was free to do a lot of 846 00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,389 books like the antiquities of the jews 847 00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:11,679 remain 848 00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:14,559 a primary source material for anyone 849 00:33:19,669 --> 00:33:16,080 studying this whole era 850 00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:19,679 and the history of the jewish people 851 00:33:23,509 --> 00:33:21,760 yeah i just don't think a lot of that is 852 00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,519 is really believable i mean 853 00:33:26,710 --> 00:33:25,440 anyone who goes and looks at the history 854 00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:26,720 of josephus 855 00:33:30,870 --> 00:33:28,640 and i've brought it up on the screen 856 00:33:34,230 --> 00:33:30,880 here just in terms of the highlights 857 00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,240 he just makes a lot of stuff up so 858 00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,240 and it's proven that he makes a lot of 859 00:33:40,389 --> 00:33:38,000 stuff up one of the first things that 860 00:33:41,830 --> 00:33:40,399 he well one of the first things he does 861 00:33:44,870 --> 00:33:41,840 if you talk to 862 00:33:45,269 --> 00:33:44,880 a jewish scholars and rabbis and folks 863 00:33:46,950 --> 00:33:45,279 i've 864 00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:46,960 researched they'll say one of the first 865 00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:49,519 things josephus says is like hey 866 00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:53,200 i am like a super jew at 14 years old 867 00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:55,760 i was down in the temple telling those 868 00:33:58,230 --> 00:33:56,799 old guys 869 00:33:59,830 --> 00:33:58,240 how to really interpret the law because 870 00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,840 i was smarter than all of them this is 871 00:34:03,669 --> 00:34:01,200 what josephus says 872 00:34:04,630 --> 00:34:03,679 he says i knew all the different sects 873 00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:04,640 right because there's all these 874 00:34:07,029 --> 00:34:05,200 different 875 00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:07,039 competing sects and some of them are 876 00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:08,560 very kind of friendly 877 00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:11,520 to the romans which is kind of where his 878 00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:12,720 family lineage are 879 00:34:17,109 --> 00:34:15,440 and some are revolting violently and 880 00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:17,119 causing all these rebellions and stuff 881 00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:17,679 like that 882 00:34:24,149 --> 00:34:20,879 but he says no man i am the super jew 883 00:34:26,149 --> 00:34:24,159 i know everything and 884 00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:26,159 i'm gonna be the guy and then at a very 885 00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:27,359 young age he 886 00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:29,200 actually gets this if you believe his 887 00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:30,800 story he gets this 888 00:34:37,430 --> 00:34:34,240 honor of going to rome to 889 00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:37,440 negotiate the release of these rabbis 890 00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,720 who are in rome 891 00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:40,320 again his whole story i think is 892 00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:41,919 manufactured but if you're just going to 893 00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:42,879 follow 894 00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,760 what he says happened oh and just to go 895 00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:47,599 back to that first part 896 00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:50,639 the reason we know he isn't kind of the 897 00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:53,200 super jew knows the law better than any 898 00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:54,639 of the best 899 00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,480 is that he contradicts the law over and 900 00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,400 over again in his writings right so 901 00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:00,079 he says i know all this stuff but then 902 00:35:04,310 --> 00:35:02,000 he he doesn't really seem to know 903 00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:04,320 the law all that well but back to his 904 00:35:08,390 --> 00:35:05,040 story 905 00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:08,400 he claims to go to rome and negotiate 906 00:35:11,829 --> 00:35:10,800 the release of these rabbis and he's 907 00:35:13,670 --> 00:35:11,839 welcomed 908 00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:13,680 by the emperor and particularly he's 909 00:35:18,390 --> 00:35:16,000 friends with the emperor's wife 910 00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:18,400 again impossible to believe he gets back 911 00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:19,760 to galilee 912 00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,520 there's this revolt that's brought 913 00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:22,800 that's breaking out 914 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:24,800 and he again this is not really 915 00:35:30,150 --> 00:35:26,320 believable but he 916 00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:30,160 is put in charge of the rome of the 917 00:35:34,230 --> 00:35:33,040 jewish troops in galilee and now here's 918 00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:34,240 the important part of the story that 919 00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:35,760 most people do know 920 00:35:40,150 --> 00:35:38,160 is that he fights tooth and nail and 921 00:35:42,310 --> 00:35:40,160 finally he's cornered by the romans 922 00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:42,320 and they go into a cave and they go well 923 00:35:46,470 --> 00:35:44,079 there's nothing we can do 924 00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:46,480 we can't surrender to these people we'll 925 00:35:49,910 --> 00:35:47,839 commit suicide 926 00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:49,920 so they make this pack 40 of them to 927 00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:51,040 commit suicide 928 00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:52,960 and they kind of do this complicated 929 00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,640 math problem where they draw straws 930 00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:56,480 because it's against jewish law to 931 00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:58,240 commit suicide so they have to kill one 932 00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,599 another 933 00:36:02,950 --> 00:36:01,200 and then lo and behold once you know it 934 00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:02,960 gets down to the final two 935 00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:05,040 and josephus just randomly happens to be 936 00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:06,720 one of those two 937 00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:10,079 and he says you know what i just had a 938 00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:11,440 revelation 939 00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:15,200 commit suicide 940 00:36:21,750 --> 00:36:18,720 we should go out and join 941 00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,760 with vespasian so he goes out and he 942 00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:23,280 now here comes a really important part 943 00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:24,800 of the story 944 00:36:28,470 --> 00:36:26,160 everyone makes a big deal on the fact 945 00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,480 that he predicts that like vespasian's 946 00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:29,920 sitting there waiting like ah what's 947 00:36:33,510 --> 00:36:31,119 this guy have to say goes 948 00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:33,520 you will be emperor in a couple of years 949 00:36:36,710 --> 00:36:34,560 and go really 950 00:36:39,030 --> 00:36:36,720 gee you know here's here's this guy we 951 00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:39,040 captured making this uh prophecy 952 00:36:43,030 --> 00:36:40,880 that's going to be so important but 953 00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:43,040 really the important thing that he 954 00:36:47,910 --> 00:36:46,000 and then he becomes part of the 955 00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:47,920 spazian's 956 00:36:51,910 --> 00:36:51,280 entourage if you will and he goes with 957 00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:51,920 him 958 00:36:55,030 --> 00:36:54,160 from location to location as they're 959 00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,040 sacking 960 00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:57,680 judea and they're taking over these 961 00:37:02,150 --> 00:36:59,119 towns 962 00:37:05,190 --> 00:37:02,160 and on the way to sacking jerusalem 963 00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:05,200 and he is recording all this history 964 00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,320 as a reward for that and probably 965 00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:11,280 what he probably did was he probably cut 966 00:37:16,710 --> 00:37:13,280 a deal with vespasian 967 00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,720 to give vespasian kind of the keys to 968 00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:18,320 the kingdom to let him know where all 969 00:37:21,109 --> 00:37:19,440 the gold is 970 00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:21,119 because this is something we actually 971 00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:22,720 have archaeological 972 00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:26,240 evidence of if anyone wants to go google 973 00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:30,480 the arch of titus you'll see this big 974 00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:33,280 arch that is still in rome and it shows 975 00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:35,119 the romans after they've kicked ass in 976 00:37:39,349 --> 00:37:36,079 judea on the 977 00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:39,359 jews they're carrying all the gold 978 00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:42,880 over their shoulder well that gold we 979 00:37:47,670 --> 00:37:44,240 should probably assume 980 00:37:49,510 --> 00:37:47,680 was buried somewhere and the guy who 981 00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:49,520 really makes out great in that whole 982 00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:50,079 deal 983 00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:54,480 is josephus because josephus is given 984 00:37:57,670 --> 00:37:56,720 this bayesian's old townhouse after 985 00:38:01,270 --> 00:37:57,680 vesseling comes 986 00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:01,280 becomes a emperor he's not only given 987 00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,320 his freedom 988 00:38:07,270 --> 00:38:04,240 but he's allowed to pick 200 other 989 00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:07,280 people off of his list to go with him 990 00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,320 live in live the high life in rome 991 00:38:14,069 --> 00:38:12,880 and then he has to go and write all this 992 00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:14,079 history down 993 00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:17,440 of what happened play by play 994 00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:21,040 of the jews how they sacked judea 995 00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:22,800 and how it wasn't really the romans 996 00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:25,440 fault it was really the jews fault 997 00:38:30,150 --> 00:38:28,240 and how you know give unto caesar what 998 00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:30,160 is caesar's and he says all this stuff 999 00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:30,960 that winds up 1000 00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:32,800 sounding in the maki making the bible 1001 00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:34,800 sound very pro-roman 1002 00:38:37,990 --> 00:38:36,400 and again we've got to remember the date 1003 00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:38,000 of all this this 1004 00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:41,440 is he's probably writing this in the 70s 1005 00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:44,400 early 70s maybe 80s we can't be sure but 1006 00:38:48,870 --> 00:38:46,000 this is after jesus has 1007 00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:48,880 died and it's after the sacking of 1008 00:38:52,870 --> 00:38:50,240 jerusalem 1009 00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:52,880 and i'll stop there because the the big 1010 00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:54,720 punch line is coming in a minute but i 1011 00:39:00,150 --> 00:38:57,119 want to give you a chance to respond to 1012 00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:00,160 that history which i think is i mean i'm 1013 00:39:04,230 --> 00:39:02,160 maybe flavoring it a little bit but the 1014 00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:04,240 main points are undeniable as far as i 1015 00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,599 understand 1016 00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:07,440 well i i don't even know why we're 1017 00:39:12,550 --> 00:39:09,119 talking about it 1018 00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:12,560 it has almost nothing to do with my book 1019 00:39:15,990 --> 00:39:14,560 well it has it has everything to do with 1020 00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:16,000 your book because 1021 00:39:20,950 --> 00:39:19,040 if you don't because because of this the 1022 00:39:24,310 --> 00:39:20,960 only references i made 1023 00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:24,320 i was well aware of josephus and his 1024 00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:28,640 uh and in fact in that time 1025 00:39:32,870 --> 00:39:31,760 no one was writing history as we think 1026 00:39:37,349 --> 00:39:32,880 of it now that had 1027 00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:37,359 not even been invented yet that idea of 1028 00:39:44,310 --> 00:39:40,880 history as an accurate narrative 1029 00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:44,320 form uh these were all 1030 00:39:49,750 --> 00:39:47,680 these these for example the gospels are 1031 00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:49,760 perfect example of that 1032 00:39:53,990 --> 00:39:52,480 they're not historical documents they 1033 00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:54,000 these are things that 1034 00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:57,040 the authors of the gospels 1035 00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:59,599 thought probably would have happened 1036 00:40:05,109 --> 00:40:01,359 they were perfectly willing to 1037 00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:05,119 to to to do that but i don't i don't use 1038 00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:06,240 josephus as 1039 00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:09,920 a as a critical source or a fundamental 1040 00:40:14,630 --> 00:40:11,839 source in my book at all 1041 00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:14,640 uh and i'm saying you should well i 1042 00:40:17,670 --> 00:40:15,119 didn't 1043 00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:17,680 so why are we talking about josephus i 1044 00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:18,319 agree because 1045 00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:21,119 because you should i don't care well you 1046 00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:22,400 you have to care and 1047 00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:26,240 here's the reason why in in my opinion 1048 00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:29,440 obviously we're just having a 1049 00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,839 nice heated discussion here it hasn't 1050 00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:33,040 heated up too much 1051 00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:34,560 but here's what here's why you should 1052 00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:38,319 care because here's who josephus 1053 00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:40,640 really is and this is from war in the 1054 00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:41,680 jews 1055 00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:44,960 this is 70 and it relates directly to 1056 00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:46,800 constantine 1057 00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:50,720 years later 1058 00:40:54,390 --> 00:40:52,880 and this is a message that he's writing 1059 00:40:57,510 --> 00:40:54,400 to everyone but 1060 00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:57,520 particularly to the people of judea 1061 00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:00,560 particularly to the jews 1062 00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:03,599 he writes but what more than all 1063 00:41:08,790 --> 00:41:06,640 else incited them to the war was an 1064 00:41:11,109 --> 00:41:08,800 ambiguous oracle 1065 00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:11,119 likewise found in their sacred 1066 00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:12,400 scriptures 1067 00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:14,880 to the effect that at the time one from 1068 00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,319 their country would become 1069 00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:18,880 ruler of the world so this is the 1070 00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:20,319 messiah 1071 00:41:25,270 --> 00:41:22,960 so what josephus is saying is hey the 1072 00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:25,280 reason these jews got so worked up in 1073 00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,960 the first place 1074 00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:28,800 is because they kept expecting the 1075 00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:30,800 messiah they were awaiting the messiah 1076 00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:31,359 so 1077 00:41:35,430 --> 00:41:33,119 they were pushing against the romans 1078 00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:35,440 because they felt like that was their 1079 00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:38,160 job to kind of hold out 1080 00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:41,280 that's exactly correct it is this they 1081 00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:42,640 understood to mean 1082 00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:44,640 that one of their race and many of the 1083 00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,119 wise men the people in the temple the 1084 00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:48,960 the rabbis went astray in their 1085 00:41:53,710 --> 00:41:50,480 interpretation of it 1086 00:41:58,309 --> 00:41:53,720 the oracle however in reality 1087 00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:58,319 signified the sovereignty of vespasian 1088 00:42:02,390 --> 00:42:01,359 who was proclaimed emperor on jewish 1089 00:42:06,069 --> 00:42:02,400 soil 1090 00:42:09,109 --> 00:42:06,079 so what he's saying this is josephus 1091 00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:09,119 speaking to all the jews 1092 00:42:16,589 --> 00:42:12,319 he's saying your religion judaism 1093 00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:16,599 is completely misunderstood by you guys 1094 00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:20,319 vespasian is the messiah 1095 00:42:27,750 --> 00:42:24,040 give it up judaism is over 1096 00:42:32,069 --> 00:42:27,760 vespasian is the messiah 1097 00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,079 now to me i think to most people when 1098 00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:34,160 they really process this 1099 00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,960 there's no other way to interpret this 1100 00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:37,920 as 1101 00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:40,560 an attempt at the ultimate attempt at 1102 00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:42,560 social engineering at 1103 00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,240 psyop at control the people 1104 00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:49,200 by co-opting their religion i mean this 1105 00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:50,880 is a propaganda agent 1106 00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:53,440 of the first order who's speaking to the 1107 00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:54,079 romans 1108 00:42:58,309 --> 00:42:57,040 and telling the jews hey you don't have 1109 00:43:02,390 --> 00:42:58,319 a religion 1110 00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:02,400 i don't understand at all 1111 00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:04,960 what this has to do with my book in my 1112 00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:05,839 book 1113 00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:08,640 i don't claim that the jews thought 1114 00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:10,960 jesus was a messiah at all in fact very 1115 00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,319 much the contrary 1116 00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,720 they didn't they didn't because he was 1117 00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:16,240 killed he was 1118 00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:19,760 he was hung from it from a 1119 00:43:25,349 --> 00:43:23,200 a tree a cross and that was something 1120 00:43:27,589 --> 00:43:25,359 that the messiah specifically 1121 00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:27,599 would not happen to him but it happened 1122 00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:28,880 to jesus 1123 00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:31,680 that's why the jews rejected jesus as 1124 00:43:38,870 --> 00:43:34,400 messiah and reject him to this day 1125 00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:38,880 as messiah and i don't think 1126 00:43:43,829 --> 00:43:42,000 i don't see what how i don't get a 1127 00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:43,839 connection 1128 00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:46,960 between what i s the 1129 00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:49,920 josephus references in my book which are 1130 00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:50,480 all 1131 00:43:55,829 --> 00:43:53,839 very carefully chosen because every 1132 00:43:58,950 --> 00:43:55,839 single one of them 1133 00:44:02,150 --> 00:43:58,960 is corroborated by other 1134 00:44:04,150 --> 00:44:02,160 other historical narrative and 1135 00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:04,160 because i'm well aware of the fact that 1136 00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:05,520 these ancient 1137 00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:09,520 historic histories are not uh 1138 00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:12,400 factual and based in fact like history 1139 00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,200 is now that 1140 00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:14,800 as i said before that hadn't been 1141 00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:16,560 invented yet so 1142 00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:17,839 i don't know where you're going with 1143 00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:19,680 this i mean of course 1144 00:44:25,589 --> 00:44:22,640 my book doesn't in fact say that the 1145 00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:25,599 jews thought jesus was a messiah in fact 1146 00:44:28,710 --> 00:44:27,839 i don't even think jesus was a messiah i 1147 00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:28,720 think he was a 1148 00:44:31,990 --> 00:44:31,599 rabbinical teacher of the first order 1149 00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:32,000 and 1150 00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:34,720 it his life ended in an extremely 1151 00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,240 unusual and unexplained 1152 00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:39,040 way minute none of it has anything as 1153 00:44:42,069 --> 00:44:40,800 far as i can tell it all to do with 1154 00:44:45,829 --> 00:44:42,079 josephus 1155 00:44:47,430 --> 00:44:45,839 and uh orvis paseon 1156 00:44:49,349 --> 00:44:47,440 i don't think this page i don't recall 1157 00:44:50,950 --> 00:44:49,359 that vespasian is even mentioned in my 1158 00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:50,960 book in fact 1159 00:44:54,630 --> 00:44:53,920 well again and this kind of this is kind 1160 00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:54,640 of a 1161 00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,960 tweak-ish issue for me whenever someone 1162 00:45:00,790 --> 00:44:58,640 talks about their book 1163 00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,800 your book is about history so anything 1164 00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:02,560 i'm pulling about the history of that 1165 00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,200 time 1166 00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:05,040 is relevant it doesn't have to reference 1167 00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:06,319 back to what's 1168 00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:09,359 in the book here's the point i mean 1169 00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:13,280 it's why why is it important 1170 00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,240 yes in a discussion of my book yes to 1171 00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:18,000 talk about whether or not this 1172 00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:21,520 because the gospels are dependent upon 1173 00:45:28,870 --> 00:45:25,119 josephus so anyone who does careful 1174 00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:28,880 analysis of the gospels they will find 1175 00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:32,000 and this is uh understood by many many 1176 00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:34,160 i would say a majority of biblical 1177 00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:35,280 scholars if you go 1178 00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:37,680 look you'll you'll and they put it in 1179 00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:38,880 very 1180 00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,960 kind of coded words the gospels are 1181 00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:42,800 dependent upon josephus and what they 1182 00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:43,200 mean 1183 00:45:47,510 --> 00:45:46,480 is the gospel writers had access to 1184 00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:47,520 josephus 1185 00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:51,440 gospels 1186 00:45:57,030 --> 00:45:55,200 and in that way they were really 1187 00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:57,040 you can say that that's just how history 1188 00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:58,240 was and this and that 1189 00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:01,359 but it's deceptive because they're now 1190 00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:03,680 taking the words of a quote-unquote 1191 00:46:06,309 --> 00:46:04,480 historian 1192 00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:06,319 even though he's a propaganda artist 1193 00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:08,560 josephus and they're turning those into 1194 00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:09,680 prophecies 1195 00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:13,280 so when jesus is standing on the hill 1196 00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:15,359 saying oh the temple will be raised to 1197 00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:16,720 the ground and every stone will be 1198 00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:17,760 overturned 1199 00:46:23,589 --> 00:46:21,200 well that is right out of josephus 1200 00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:23,599 but when josephus writes it he's saying 1201 00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,800 hey i was there with 1202 00:46:29,030 --> 00:46:27,359 titus after vespasian went up went away 1203 00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:29,040 to be emperor 1204 00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:30,480 and that's what they did man they kicked 1205 00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:31,520 ass and they knocked the whole thing 1206 00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:32,160 down 1207 00:46:35,349 --> 00:46:34,400 and then uh but when it comes out of 1208 00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,359 jesus's mouth 1209 00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:37,520 it's prophecy well no it's not he didn't 1210 00:46:40,710 --> 00:46:38,800 really jesus 1211 00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:40,720 jesus whoever jesus was didn't really 1212 00:46:44,150 --> 00:46:42,079 prophesize that 1213 00:46:46,309 --> 00:46:44,160 it just sounds good when you take the 1214 00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:46,319 history and you're right it is prophecy 1215 00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:49,599 so that's all what you're even saying 1216 00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:52,079 uh because you say the gospel writers 1217 00:46:55,750 --> 00:46:52,880 all 1218 00:46:56,550 --> 00:46:55,760 were aware of the works of josephus the 1219 00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:56,560 problem with that 1220 00:47:02,790 --> 00:46:59,599 is the jewish wars were written in in 1221 00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:02,800 in about 75 which was at least 1222 00:47:07,109 --> 00:47:05,599 five years after the earliest gospel 1223 00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:07,119 mark was written 1224 00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:09,359 and the antiquities of the jews doesn't 1225 00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:11,520 come along until 94 1226 00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:15,040 and the only uh gospel written 1227 00:47:19,990 --> 00:47:18,079 after 94 was john 1228 00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:20,000 well then we have a problem don't we 1229 00:47:24,230 --> 00:47:21,680 because if 1230 00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:24,240 the gospels can be shown and you know we 1231 00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:24,800 can have a 1232 00:47:28,069 --> 00:47:26,800 i could show you that offline or we can 1233 00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:28,079 pull that up now 1234 00:47:35,470 --> 00:47:31,640 if the gospels can be shown to have a 1235 00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:35,480 statistically off the charts parallel 1236 00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:39,680 play-by-play consistency with josephus 1237 00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:42,400 then we do have a problem right it's no 1238 00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:43,920 problem at all 1239 00:47:54,470 --> 00:47:52,309 the same narrative which may have been 1240 00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:54,480 written down at the time by somebody but 1241 00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:56,000 has now been lost 1242 00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:00,000 or was oral an oral narrative 1243 00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:02,720 and the jew the the gospel writers and 1244 00:48:07,349 --> 00:48:04,960 josephus were all aware of it 1245 00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:07,359 but who was copying who who the hell 1246 00:48:12,470 --> 00:48:08,720 knows or cares 1247 00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:12,480 it's irrelevant well again i'd come back 1248 00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:13,359 to the point 1249 00:48:19,109 --> 00:48:17,200 why it's not irrelevant is 1250 00:48:20,549 --> 00:48:19,119 if it is history so even take your 1251 00:48:21,270 --> 00:48:20,559 assumption there that someone wrote it 1252 00:48:24,710 --> 00:48:21,280 down 1253 00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:27,030 i didn't write a book about i put 1254 00:48:29,670 --> 00:48:28,559 together a lot of different 1255 00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:29,680 possibilities 1256 00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:32,079 in my book and i don't know why you 1257 00:48:35,190 --> 00:48:33,119 don't want to 1258 00:48:36,309 --> 00:48:35,200 talk about my book but you don't and 1259 00:48:38,710 --> 00:48:36,319 that's fine 1260 00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,720 i'll talk about instead i'll talk about 1261 00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:40,079 the way 1262 00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:44,960 stories like this like the antiquities 1263 00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:46,880 of the jews and the gospels 1264 00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:50,319 were created in that time and 1265 00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:53,520 these were created by people who were 1266 00:48:58,630 --> 00:48:56,720 extremely isolated from the incidents 1267 00:48:59,349 --> 00:48:58,640 that they were describing for the most 1268 00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,359 part 1269 00:49:02,950 --> 00:49:01,440 josephus was apparently involved in the 1270 00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:02,960 jewish war so 1271 00:49:07,349 --> 00:49:06,240 some of his statements might be might be 1272 00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:07,359 com 1273 00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:10,480 accurate but many of them won't be 1274 00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:13,200 uh because they they they took they 1275 00:49:16,069 --> 00:49:15,119 didn't they couldn't tell the difference 1276 00:49:19,030 --> 00:49:16,079 between 1277 00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,040 hearsay what we would call now hearsay 1278 00:49:24,710 --> 00:49:21,440 an actual factual narrative 1279 00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:24,720 i mean if you pick up um suetchiness 1280 00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:28,800 and his bizarre tales of the emperors 1281 00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:31,599 the emperors he liked come off well and 1282 00:49:36,549 --> 00:49:33,520 the emperors he didn't like 1283 00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,559 come off as maniacs and 1284 00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:39,280 nobody knows the truth of any of that 1285 00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:41,599 and the same is true of the gospels or 1286 00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:42,640 josephus 1287 00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:46,400 or any of these authors we have to 1288 00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:50,160 struggle through these narrative threads 1289 00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:52,400 to try to find 1290 00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:55,760 some consistency and that is what 1291 00:50:02,150 --> 00:49:58,880 for example scholarship is of this era 1292 00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:02,160 is all about and my book is does the 1293 00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:03,599 same it doesn't 1294 00:50:10,390 --> 00:50:07,119 use josephus as a as a 1295 00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:10,400 source of fact at all 1296 00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,319 i mean there are mentions of josephus 1297 00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:16,240 but they're all only things that were 1298 00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:18,720 corroborated by other historians so that 1299 00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:19,359 they 1300 00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:22,559 it other narratives at the time 1301 00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:25,200 i mean we don't know what happened then 1302 00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:26,240 really 1303 00:50:31,349 --> 00:50:29,920 uh we know again again i mean i almost 1304 00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:31,359 want to shift off of this 1305 00:50:35,990 --> 00:50:34,079 in order to bring it back into focus in 1306 00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:36,000 a different way but i can't quite leave 1307 00:50:38,790 --> 00:50:37,599 it yet because i think you do leave a 1308 00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:38,800 couple of gaps there 1309 00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:40,400 so again that's why i mentioned the arch 1310 00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:42,960 of titus because a lot of people can get 1311 00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,640 kind of lost in the weeds 1312 00:50:47,670 --> 00:50:46,240 and kind of listen to that well we don't 1313 00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:47,680 really know the history and this and 1314 00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:48,079 that 1315 00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:49,920 well i don't know we kind of know some 1316 00:50:53,510 --> 00:50:51,200 of the history 1317 00:50:54,790 --> 00:50:53,520 we can go look at that arch and we're 1318 00:50:56,790 --> 00:50:54,800 going to look at those guys with all 1319 00:50:58,630 --> 00:50:56,800 that gold the jewish 1320 00:51:01,030 --> 00:50:58,640 booty that they got from sacking 1321 00:51:04,309 --> 00:51:01,040 jerusalem and we can know 1322 00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:04,319 at least what historic history tells us 1323 00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:06,400 the spazian built the coliseum with the 1324 00:51:11,430 --> 00:51:08,160 gold that he got 1325 00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:11,440 from judea right so no 1326 00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,079 you don't know that well you only know 1327 00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,040 what the romans wanted to say 1328 00:51:20,309 --> 00:51:19,680 not what necessarily happened or didn't 1329 00:51:22,470 --> 00:51:20,319 happen 1330 00:51:24,390 --> 00:51:22,480 why would you pick that i mean the the 1331 00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:24,400 general consensus is that 1332 00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:28,160 vespasian was kind of the ultimate super 1333 00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:28,960 general 1334 00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:31,839 paid his guys well which was his smart 1335 00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:32,880 way to do it 1336 00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:34,640 and that it's generally accepted that he 1337 00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:36,400 used the gold from judea 1338 00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:38,880 to build the coliseum and do the you 1339 00:51:41,829 --> 00:51:40,559 know circus and bread kind of thing 1340 00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:41,839 are you saying you that's not your 1341 00:51:45,349 --> 00:51:43,440 understanding of that is saying anything 1342 00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,359 i'm simply saying that you're saying 1343 00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,040 you're using words like generally 1344 00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:49,680 accepted in other words you are 1345 00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,480 you are regarding this history in 1346 00:51:57,030 --> 00:51:54,480 exactly the same type of mindset that 1347 00:51:59,109 --> 00:51:57,040 josephus would have 1348 00:52:01,910 --> 00:51:59,119 just to get back that before i i skip 1349 00:52:05,349 --> 00:52:01,920 off down this other thing is 1350 00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:05,359 when when we hear about like the sacking 1351 00:52:09,270 --> 00:52:06,640 of rome 1352 00:52:11,109 --> 00:52:09,280 in the gospels it's coming through as 1353 00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:11,119 prophecy from jesus 1354 00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:13,440 you mean the sacking of jerusalem by the 1355 00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:14,880 romans 1356 00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,480 yes i'm sorry if i misstated that but 1357 00:52:20,710 --> 00:52:18,240 yeah i mean that's that's in the gospel 1358 00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:20,720 that's prophecy from jesus 1359 00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:23,200 well yeah but no one thinks that he did 1360 00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:24,079 that i don't 1361 00:52:27,750 --> 00:52:26,160 i don't think he actually prophesied 1362 00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:27,760 that i mean he's 1363 00:52:31,990 --> 00:52:30,079 he was a very bright man and it's not 1364 00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:32,000 beyond belief that he might 1365 00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,680 have have i mean i've prophesied things 1366 00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:36,800 that 1367 00:52:43,510 --> 00:52:41,760 in uh superstorm for example but it's 1368 00:52:45,510 --> 00:52:43,520 not because i had some 1369 00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:45,520 magic power from on high it's because 1370 00:52:49,589 --> 00:52:47,040 i'm not stupid 1371 00:52:51,829 --> 00:52:49,599 the point here is that i can i can 1372 00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:51,839 prophesy stuff that happened 30 years 1373 00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:53,359 ago too 1374 00:53:00,150 --> 00:52:56,960 well look when i wrote super storm 1375 00:53:04,630 --> 00:53:00,160 none of that material was 1376 00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:04,640 in the record and people scorned me 1377 00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,280 i was laughed off of with art bell off 1378 00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:08,800 of the today show 1379 00:53:14,069 --> 00:53:11,839 because our ideas were so radical 1380 00:53:16,870 --> 00:53:14,079 now if you google the word super storm 1381 00:53:20,390 --> 00:53:16,880 you find millions of references to it 1382 00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:20,400 the superstorm scenario is even the 1383 00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,880 is even the center of one of the major 1384 00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:24,880 environmental papers written in the past 1385 00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:26,720 10 years 1386 00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:30,000 and i'm telling you right now i didn't 1387 00:53:35,109 --> 00:53:31,359 have 1388 00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:35,119 some kind of messianic 1389 00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:37,359 skill at all i just looked at the 1390 00:53:41,910 --> 00:53:39,359 science and at the reality of it 1391 00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:41,920 in a different way as i was describing 1392 00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:42,720 earlier i 1393 00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:46,160 didn't have the implant then but i may i 1394 00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:47,839 guess i did have it but i didn't wasn't 1395 00:53:52,870 --> 00:53:48,559 aware of 1396 00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:52,880 how to use it but as far as 1397 00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:56,240 these stories of we know i'll tell you 1398 00:54:00,470 --> 00:53:56,640 how 1399 00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:00,480 the my book's not really about 1400 00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:04,800 the historicity of the narrative 1401 00:54:10,630 --> 00:54:08,240 but if you want to really learn 1402 00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,640 about the relationship between the 1403 00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:12,720 various narratives 1404 00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:16,480 that appear in in the in the roman world 1405 00:54:20,069 --> 00:54:17,920 and what might have actually been 1406 00:54:21,670 --> 00:54:20,079 happening on the ground then you have to 1407 00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:21,680 go to archaeology 1408 00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:24,400 and you you and and analyses of things 1409 00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:24,720 like 1410 00:54:31,829 --> 00:54:28,079 population densities age at death 1411 00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:31,839 uh con conditions of 1412 00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:35,200 bodies insofar as we can determine that 1413 00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:38,319 uh etc etc and so forth and that has 1414 00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:41,440 been done brilliantly over many years by 1415 00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:44,480 by archaeologists and so 1416 00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:47,920 we do know for example that the roman 1417 00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:51,760 that roman rome was it was visited by 1418 00:54:55,349 --> 00:54:53,760 numerous plagues and not only because of 1419 00:54:58,390 --> 00:54:55,359 the historical narrative 1420 00:55:02,230 --> 00:54:58,400 but because we can find skeletons that 1421 00:55:06,390 --> 00:55:04,870 evidence of the diseases that were 1422 00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:06,400 involved 1423 00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:08,400 you see what i mean i do see what you 1424 00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:10,640 mean but i don't honestly care about 1425 00:55:15,109 --> 00:55:11,920 josephus 1426 00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:15,119 book 1427 00:55:18,789 --> 00:55:17,280 uh whether or not he no he's central 1428 00:55:20,789 --> 00:55:18,799 he's central to this history he's 1429 00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:20,799 entirely irrelevant to me he 1430 00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:22,880 well not to me he's central to this 1431 00:55:27,510 --> 00:55:24,480 issue because he's the 1432 00:55:28,470 --> 00:55:27,520 clear example of the social engineering 1433 00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:28,480 that 1434 00:55:32,470 --> 00:55:30,480 rome is engaged in and you actually said 1435 00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:32,480 this in the very own 1436 00:55:36,870 --> 00:55:34,799 well hold on you can't you can't say so 1437 00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,880 what it can be so what to you and it 1438 00:55:40,309 --> 00:55:38,559 isn't so what to me so okay 1439 00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:40,319 beginning invited me on this show to 1440 00:55:44,950 --> 00:55:41,760 talk about a book 1441 00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:44,960 now we're i don't ever invite anyone 1442 00:55:50,430 --> 00:55:48,559 on on skeptico to talk about books 1443 00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:50,440 i just have people on to have 1444 00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:51,920 conversations 1445 00:55:56,230 --> 00:55:55,040 and and and and it seems like it seems 1446 00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:56,240 like a completely 1447 00:56:00,950 --> 00:55:58,240 unimportant and irrelevant argument 1448 00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:00,960 about something that doesn't matter 1449 00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,000 you know even even in even the his even 1450 00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:06,400 in the context of history who cares 1451 00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:10,000 whether uh josephus thought vespasian 1452 00:56:15,109 --> 00:56:13,119 was the messiah or not and the jews were 1453 00:56:15,670 --> 00:56:15,119 very confused about it and they did end 1454 00:56:19,750 --> 00:56:15,680 up 1455 00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:19,760 belief in their 1456 00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:22,000 in their messiah you're right about that 1457 00:56:26,789 --> 00:56:23,440 that's not what i said 1458 00:56:28,630 --> 00:56:26,799 so what it happened so what it's not 1459 00:56:29,670 --> 00:56:28,640 it's not what i said so it's not 1460 00:56:31,349 --> 00:56:29,680 accurate to say 1461 00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:31,359 you're right about that because that's 1462 00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:33,040 that wasn't my point well 1463 00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:35,839 what is your point i'm very curious to 1464 00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:38,400 to understand that because i don't at 1465 00:56:40,549 --> 00:56:38,799 all 1466 00:56:41,910 --> 00:56:40,559 i i know so i'm not going to keep 1467 00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,920 hammering on it from the same direction 1468 00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:43,119 i'm going to come in it from a different 1469 00:56:49,430 --> 00:56:44,559 direction because i just heard an 1470 00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:52,390 with jeffrey mishlov and you you had a 1471 00:56:55,510 --> 00:56:53,119 great 1472 00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:55,520 quote in there that i thought was just 1473 00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:56,319 phenomenal 1474 00:57:01,030 --> 00:56:58,880 in a way if i if it does link back to 1475 00:57:02,950 --> 00:57:01,040 this then i will have been successful 1476 00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:02,960 in helping you understand where i'm 1477 00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:04,799 coming from 1478 00:57:07,910 --> 00:57:07,040 but you're trying to understand the 1479 00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:07,920 relationship 1480 00:57:14,789 --> 00:57:11,440 that we might have with the others 1481 00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:14,799 with e.t if you will to keep it simple 1482 00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:18,079 and you use the analogy of a dog 1483 00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:21,200 of us being the dog you know not being 1484 00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:23,280 being i we have a foster dog here and 1485 00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:25,200 i've been enjoying getting to know this 1486 00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:26,000 dog 1487 00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:32,000 you know just get run around chasing 1488 00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:34,000 their tail or run around chasing a stick 1489 00:57:37,510 --> 00:57:35,200 and i go that doesn't seem 1490 00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:37,520 all that smart and that's the analogy 1491 00:57:40,390 --> 00:57:38,240 you made 1492 00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:40,400 and then you further extended that 1493 00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:42,319 analogy in a way that i thought was very 1494 00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:43,760 interesting 1495 00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:47,119 you said if we're the dog e.t maybe can 1496 00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:48,079 be understood 1497 00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:51,359 as the boot the boot on the neck of that 1498 00:57:54,950 --> 00:57:52,640 dog 1499 00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:54,960 and then you talked about how futile it 1500 00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:55,680 is 1501 00:58:00,789 --> 00:57:59,280 to gnaw at that boot because the boot 1502 00:58:05,349 --> 00:58:00,799 can get you 1503 00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:05,359 so what is the relationship between 1504 00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:08,400 us and the various boots 1505 00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:11,680 whether they be e.t which is where we 1506 00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:12,880 can start 1507 00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:16,000 but also that's how it relates to this 1508 00:58:20,870 --> 00:58:18,640 the picture that you paint actually from 1509 00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:20,880 the beginning whitley before you got all 1510 00:58:24,870 --> 00:58:22,559 agitated with my 1511 00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:24,880 questions is that the romans were the 1512 00:58:32,390 --> 00:58:26,240 boot 1513 00:58:33,349 --> 00:58:32,400 the life of jesus or the spiritual 1514 00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:33,359 experience 1515 00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:35,359 what i would say that people are having 1516 00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:37,359 with christ consciousness 1517 00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:40,640 they use that to create the boot 1518 00:58:45,190 --> 00:58:43,599 on the neck of the people so what do you 1519 00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:45,200 think about 1520 00:58:55,430 --> 00:58:53,190 well uh that's exactly my point about 1521 00:58:58,789 --> 00:58:55,440 what constantine did 1522 00:59:01,910 --> 00:58:58,799 he turned this rabbi 1523 00:59:05,190 --> 00:59:01,920 into a roman god and 1524 00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:05,200 as i point out in my book a religious 1525 00:59:08,870 --> 00:59:07,359 dictatorship emerged out of that that 1526 00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:08,880 lasted 1527 00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,480 until really it only completely died 1528 00:59:18,630 --> 00:59:14,799 away in the 19th century 1529 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:18,640 and for much of that time because of it 1530 00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:21,090 the western world was plunged into 1531 00:59:25,750 --> 00:59:22,640 [Music] 1532 00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:25,760 superstition ignorance and darkness and 1533 00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:27,920 terrible suffering 1534 00:59:31,190 --> 00:59:29,839 millions of people probably over the 1535 00:59:34,230 --> 00:59:31,200 years 1536 00:59:35,990 --> 00:59:34,240 between the fifth century when it began 1537 00:59:39,470 --> 00:59:36,000 to really take hold 1538 00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:39,480 and the the last of the inquisition in 1539 00:59:50,150 --> 00:59:46,630 must have suffered persecution 1540 00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:50,160 from it and it still went on in a sense 1541 00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:53,040 when the holocaust emerged 1542 00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:56,079 because i don't think that there would 1543 01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:57,440 have been a holocaust 1544 01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:00,640 if the long standing tradition 1545 01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,680 of animosity between christians and jews 1546 01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:05,680 had not persisted 1547 01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:09,119 and it all starts with constantine 1548 01:00:15,430 --> 01:00:12,240 it all starts with him well and 1549 01:00:16,309 --> 01:00:15,440 this is to my point does it start with 1550 01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:16,319 constantine 1551 01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,520 or does it start on some other realm 1552 01:00:23,349 --> 01:00:21,359 that we don't totally understand 1553 01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:23,359 you know the last time we talked i asked 1554 01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:25,680 you a question that 1555 01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,000 just still res still rings in my ears 1556 01:00:30,870 --> 01:00:29,839 and i bring it up all the time and i ask 1557 01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:30,880 you 1558 01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,000 how far away is e.t 1559 01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:36,480 and you immediately said inch away inch 1560 01:00:41,349 --> 01:00:37,440 away 1561 01:00:43,670 --> 01:00:41,359 so if we are to understand the larger 1562 01:00:45,030 --> 01:00:43,680 consciousness soup that we're in 1563 01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:45,040 including our 1564 01:00:50,069 --> 01:00:48,000 dorky here and now reality if we're to 1565 01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:50,079 understand that 1566 01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:53,040 with a light with a wider lens lens a 1567 01:00:59,750 --> 01:00:54,240 lens that includes 1568 01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:59,760 leslie kane trying to talk to bud 1569 01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:01,200 hopkins through after death 1570 01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:03,119 communication i'll leave your after 1571 01:01:06,069 --> 01:01:04,160 death communication 1572 01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:06,079 out of it just for a second if we're 1573 01:01:11,190 --> 01:01:08,079 trying to talk about 1574 01:01:13,349 --> 01:01:11,200 um the connection to evil and benevolent 1575 01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:13,359 forces which i think is what's relevant 1576 01:01:16,390 --> 01:01:14,240 in rome 1577 01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:16,400 to think that constantine is making all 1578 01:01:20,309 --> 01:01:17,280 this up on his 1579 01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:20,319 own is to deny the rich 1580 01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:22,559 spiritual experience that all these 1581 01:01:27,589 --> 01:01:24,480 people throughout history had 1582 01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:31,030 i point out in my book 1583 01:01:37,589 --> 01:01:34,549 something that tacitus reports 1584 01:01:42,390 --> 01:01:37,599 that a 1585 01:01:48,710 --> 01:01:42,400 defeated um scottish 1586 01:01:55,589 --> 01:01:52,069 after he had been vanquished by 1587 01:01:59,029 --> 01:01:55,599 um agricola 1588 01:02:03,430 --> 01:01:59,039 in around 80 something 85 1589 01:02:08,150 --> 01:02:03,440 i guess a.d to plunder butcher and steal 1590 01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:12,950 they create 1591 01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:16,150 a desolation and call it peace 1592 01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:19,760 now i hasten to add that 1593 01:02:26,630 --> 01:02:23,119 in view of our previous conversation 1594 01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:26,640 i have no idea whether tacitus was 1595 01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:27,920 quoting a speech 1596 01:02:32,870 --> 01:02:30,960 or made it all up and it doesn't matter 1597 01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:32,880 because it's a very accurate description 1598 01:02:37,589 --> 01:02:34,000 of what rome 1599 01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:37,599 did and was doing now as far as 1600 01:02:41,910 --> 01:02:38,799 constantine 1601 01:02:46,829 --> 01:02:41,920 is concerned the 1602 01:02:50,230 --> 01:02:46,839 the chapter i have on constantine 1603 01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:50,240 relates back 1604 01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:53,920 to the story in the gospels 1605 01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:57,359 of jesus's 40 days in the desert and his 1606 01:03:02,870 --> 01:02:59,039 temptation 1607 01:03:06,309 --> 01:03:02,880 by the devil satan 1608 01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:06,319 and i point out that constantine 1609 01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:09,839 succumbed to that same temptation which 1610 01:03:15,990 --> 01:03:12,720 jesus did not succumb to 1611 01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:16,000 and whether that temptation emerges 1612 01:03:20,069 --> 01:03:18,640 from some kind of an entity outside of 1613 01:03:23,829 --> 01:03:20,079 us or not 1614 01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:23,839 you tell me i mean i've no you tell me 1615 01:03:27,190 --> 01:03:26,480 no i can't i'm not going to because i 1616 01:03:30,870 --> 01:03:27,200 can't 1617 01:03:32,789 --> 01:03:30,880 i'm i'd as we talked about at the very 1618 01:03:35,910 --> 01:03:32,799 beginning i do not 1619 01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:35,920 i am not a channeler and i don't have 1620 01:03:40,390 --> 01:03:38,559 downloads from the beyond history would 1621 01:03:42,870 --> 01:03:40,400 tell us that it extends way before 1622 01:03:44,630 --> 01:03:42,880 boy but when montezuma was standing on 1623 01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:44,640 the top of that pyramid 1624 01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,960 pulling the live hearts out of the 1625 01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:49,200 people and letting the blood drip down 1626 01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:50,880 the stairs 1627 01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:54,079 he was in connection with 1628 01:03:58,630 --> 01:03:56,720 some entity in that extended realm that 1629 01:04:01,750 --> 01:03:58,640 would probably be really comfortable 1630 01:04:05,109 --> 01:04:01,760 with what you just read about how 1631 01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:05,119 constantine saw the world but uh i i 1632 01:04:10,829 --> 01:04:07,440 don't think that you can 1633 01:04:13,589 --> 01:04:10,839 you can draw the conclusion 1634 01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:13,599 that these things happen because of 1635 01:04:18,069 --> 01:04:15,039 something outside of us 1636 01:04:20,069 --> 01:04:18,079 when it's perfectly clear to see it for 1637 01:04:23,990 --> 01:04:20,079 anybody to see 1638 01:04:27,910 --> 01:04:24,000 for example that the romans were 1639 01:04:31,430 --> 01:04:27,920 they were very primitive people and 1640 01:04:33,910 --> 01:04:31,440 ethic they had no ethical focus 1641 01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:33,920 it hadn't been invented yet their job 1642 01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:35,359 was to go in and 1643 01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:37,599 and take as much out of their provinces 1644 01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:39,119 as they could 1645 01:04:42,710 --> 01:04:40,799 that was what the governors were about 1646 01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:42,720 and that's why a lot of them were called 1647 01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:44,960 procurators because they were there to 1648 01:04:49,270 --> 01:04:46,480 procure 1649 01:04:51,029 --> 01:04:49,280 and eventually even the romans as thick 1650 01:04:53,670 --> 01:04:51,039 headed as they were 1651 01:04:55,349 --> 01:04:53,680 discovered that if you taxed people to 1652 01:04:58,470 --> 01:04:55,359 the point that they would 1653 01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,480 starve to death then you you in the long 1654 01:05:05,910 --> 01:05:00,960 run you lost out and gradually things 1655 01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:09,349 is that our constantine was terrified 1656 01:05:14,549 --> 01:05:10,799 that the empire would go 1657 01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:14,559 it was going to fail and is is that 1658 01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:17,280 did he act as he did because he was in 1659 01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:19,599 league with some sort of satanic entity 1660 01:05:23,670 --> 01:05:20,960 or montezuma 1661 01:05:25,670 --> 01:05:23,680 if indeed he did stand on the pyramid 1662 01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:25,680 but in any case somebody certainly did 1663 01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,240 it 1664 01:05:30,230 --> 01:05:28,160 we know that because we found some of 1665 01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:30,240 the skeletons of the people who were 1666 01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:32,960 who were killed in that way in uh both 1667 01:05:37,349 --> 01:05:34,720 in all through 1668 01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:37,359 all of mesoamerica and well we also have 1669 01:05:40,470 --> 01:05:39,200 the record that they say that they were 1670 01:05:43,349 --> 01:05:40,480 connecting with 1671 01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:43,359 spirit entities so well i don't know why 1672 01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:44,799 i don't know why you're pushing against 1673 01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:45,520 that or 1674 01:05:49,109 --> 01:05:47,440 qualifying it and and you know the other 1675 01:05:50,230 --> 01:05:49,119 thing with the romans that i would add 1676 01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:50,240 because i think this is 1677 01:05:54,470 --> 01:05:52,400 i really disagree with you about the 1678 01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:54,480 romans being blockheaded 1679 01:05:58,390 --> 01:05:56,880 or characterizing them this way i think 1680 01:06:00,390 --> 01:05:58,400 this is the major 1681 01:06:02,390 --> 01:06:00,400 one of the major major problems in 1682 01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:02,400 history and i would expect you to be 1683 01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:04,000 more tuned into this and that 1684 01:06:11,109 --> 01:06:07,440 history writes these people 1685 01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:11,119 into the books as if they are not living 1686 01:06:18,309 --> 01:06:14,880 the same rich spiritual life 1687 01:06:18,789 --> 01:06:18,319 that you and i live i am not a perfect 1688 01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:18,799 person 1689 01:06:22,069 --> 01:06:20,960 i'll probably yell at my wife or scream 1690 01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:22,079 at my daughter 1691 01:06:25,270 --> 01:06:23,760 today in a way that i'm not proud of and 1692 01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:25,280 i'll wake up at two o'clock in the 1693 01:06:29,990 --> 01:06:26,880 morning and i'll be wondering 1694 01:06:33,349 --> 01:06:30,000 how that has impacted my soul because 1695 01:06:34,710 --> 01:06:33,359 i am living a rich spiritual life so is 1696 01:06:38,309 --> 01:06:34,720 vespasian 1697 01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:38,319 so was josephus so was every roman 1698 01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:40,240 whether they were a slave or whether 1699 01:06:44,710 --> 01:06:41,440 they were 1700 01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:44,720 is our nature 1701 01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:48,160 is living rich spiritual lives 1702 01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:51,200 well i don't know what to say i i'm 1703 01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:54,640 very much engaged in 1704 01:07:02,150 --> 01:06:59,119 these extended realms and i 1705 01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:02,160 don't um i just don't know how to 1706 01:07:05,829 --> 01:07:02,960 respond 1707 01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:05,839 i have no idea what you're talking about 1708 01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:07,039 where you're going 1709 01:07:11,349 --> 01:07:09,680 what you're trying to say uh if you 1710 01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:11,359 believe in demons then 1711 01:07:16,390 --> 01:07:14,640 get some sage and go go flying around 1712 01:07:18,549 --> 01:07:16,400 your house with sage burning or whatever 1713 01:07:21,349 --> 01:07:18,559 you need to do 1714 01:07:24,549 --> 01:07:21,359 i live my life and it's a good life and 1715 01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:24,559 that's really all i have to say 1716 01:07:29,029 --> 01:07:26,880 i i guess i don't know why i don't even 1717 01:07:32,549 --> 01:07:29,039 know why that would be so 1718 01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,559 difficult i'm not i'm not into 1719 01:07:35,589 --> 01:07:34,319 the demon thing because i'm not a 1720 01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:35,599 christian because i 1721 01:07:39,589 --> 01:07:37,839 don't believe i believe that the 1722 01:07:41,670 --> 01:07:39,599 christian narrative is a co-opted 1723 01:07:44,390 --> 01:07:41,680 religion co-opted by the same 1724 01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:44,400 people that you describe in the book so 1725 01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:46,160 i don't know why we're so exactly what 1726 01:07:49,829 --> 01:07:47,440 the book is about 1727 01:07:51,990 --> 01:07:49,839 well i so i don't know why we're so out 1728 01:07:52,470 --> 01:07:52,000 of out of joint out of sync with that 1729 01:07:54,630 --> 01:07:52,480 and when 1730 01:07:56,470 --> 01:07:54,640 i talked about i just don't understand 1731 01:07:59,990 --> 01:07:56,480 what you're talking about what 1732 01:08:03,029 --> 01:08:00,000 what evil entities and and 1733 01:08:05,109 --> 01:08:03,039 again why were you talking 1734 01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:05,119 why were you talking about e.t being the 1735 01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:06,240 boot on your neck 1736 01:08:13,829 --> 01:08:11,119 of the dog 1737 01:08:15,190 --> 01:08:13,839 whatever i said then and whatever the 1738 01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,200 context was 1739 01:08:23,590 --> 01:08:18,319 i don't know but i was probably 1740 01:08:27,990 --> 01:08:25,910 all of the negative stuff that has gone 1741 01:08:31,910 --> 01:08:28,000 on and there's been a lot of it 1742 01:08:33,910 --> 01:08:31,920 uh i had a hell of a bad experience and 1743 01:08:36,070 --> 01:08:33,920 frankly so did my wife 1744 01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:36,080 uh but we don't she did not wish to talk 1745 01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:38,080 about her aspect of it and i honor that 1746 01:08:42,789 --> 01:08:39,679 to this day 1747 01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:42,799 but uh it was very terrible and 1748 01:08:46,149 --> 01:08:44,719 uh there was nothing we could do about 1749 01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:46,159 it are you 1750 01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,239 there's people who have been beaten up 1751 01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:50,080 and scarred and god knows maybe some of 1752 01:08:55,269 --> 01:08:52,319 them have even disappeared completely 1753 01:08:56,950 --> 01:08:55,279 we don't know but there is an aspect of 1754 01:08:59,990 --> 01:08:56,960 it that is 1755 01:09:02,709 --> 01:09:00,000 dark and difficult and dangerous 1756 01:09:03,510 --> 01:09:02,719 and you know what that doesn't mean it's 1757 01:09:06,550 --> 01:09:03,520 some kind of 1758 01:09:08,470 --> 01:09:06,560 supernatural thing it means 1759 01:09:10,229 --> 01:09:08,480 that we are looking at something that is 1760 01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:10,239 very complex 1761 01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:13,679 just like us because believe me 1762 01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:16,960 i can gather together plenty of very 1763 01:09:21,430 --> 01:09:17,679 dark 1764 01:09:22,950 --> 01:09:21,440 dangerous and evil people why are they 1765 01:09:26,709 --> 01:09:22,960 that way 1766 01:09:29,669 --> 01:09:26,719 is it because some dark force has 1767 01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:29,679 entered them maybe i wouldn't doubt 1768 01:09:33,749 --> 01:09:30,480 wouldn't say 1769 01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:33,759 that's impossible but 1770 01:09:41,349 --> 01:09:37,440 what i can do is i can react to what 1771 01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:41,359 is present and not to what i believe 1772 01:09:46,470 --> 01:09:44,719 may be its origins and that's why i was 1773 01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:46,480 talking about 1774 01:09:53,510 --> 01:09:49,920 the boot because the dog doesn't see 1775 01:09:54,630 --> 01:09:53,520 the man who's kicking him the dog sees 1776 01:09:58,310 --> 01:09:54,640 the boot 1777 01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:58,320 up 1778 01:10:01,990 --> 01:10:00,800 and bite the throat out of his oppressor 1779 01:10:05,350 --> 01:10:02,000 that does not occur 1780 01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:05,360 to him and we're in the same place 1781 01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:09,120 the dog the dog doesn't understand the 1782 01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:10,880 relationship between 1783 01:10:15,189 --> 01:10:12,800 the man above him and the boot that's 1784 01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:15,199 kicking him and we don't understand the 1785 01:10:19,110 --> 01:10:16,480 relationship 1786 01:10:19,910 --> 01:10:19,120 between getting beat up by whatever it 1787 01:10:26,149 --> 01:10:19,920 is 1788 01:10:29,590 --> 01:10:26,159 that's what i always thought you meant 1789 01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:29,600 when you used that analogy 1790 01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:31,280 here's what i was attempting to 1791 01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:33,840 substitute in there which again i do not 1792 01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:35,920 know why you would find this 1793 01:10:42,630 --> 01:10:39,440 controversial or need to push back on it 1794 01:10:44,630 --> 01:10:42,640 but your experience as uh probably i'll 1795 01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:44,640 put probably in there a part of 1796 01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:48,159 mk ultra if we understand that history 1797 01:10:53,510 --> 01:10:50,320 which is well documented with 1798 01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:53,520 tens of thousands of declassified 1799 01:10:57,669 --> 01:10:54,880 documents 1800 01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:57,679 is that they were exactly trying to 1801 01:11:00,149 --> 01:10:58,080 reach 1802 01:11:01,669 --> 01:11:00,159 these extended realms and not just the 1803 01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:01,679 et realms 1804 01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:04,800 but the other realms in order to conjure 1805 01:11:08,390 --> 01:11:07,440 spirits that they thought they not only 1806 01:11:12,310 --> 01:11:08,400 thought but they had 1807 01:11:14,390 --> 01:11:12,320 evidence could be another boot could be 1808 01:11:15,750 --> 01:11:14,400 a different boot and hey we got to do it 1809 01:11:17,110 --> 01:11:15,760 before they got to do it kind of 1810 01:11:18,950 --> 01:11:17,120 mentality 1811 01:11:20,390 --> 01:11:18,960 that's in play right or do you want to 1812 01:11:21,830 --> 01:11:20,400 say you know you want to kind of wave 1813 01:11:23,910 --> 01:11:21,840 your fingers and go 1814 01:11:25,110 --> 01:11:23,920 you supernatural freaky of course it's 1815 01:11:27,830 --> 01:11:25,120 supernatural 1816 01:11:30,550 --> 01:11:27,840 natural is is scientific materialism 1817 01:11:33,830 --> 01:11:30,560 that's out the window 1818 01:11:37,030 --> 01:11:33,840 well it certainly is in play um and 1819 01:11:37,750 --> 01:11:37,040 i would assume that i was affected by 1820 01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:37,760 something 1821 01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,880 by a pre a precursor of mk ultra when i 1822 01:11:45,910 --> 01:11:42,320 was a little boy 1823 01:11:48,470 --> 01:11:45,920 in 1952 something happened to me that 1824 01:11:49,990 --> 01:11:48,480 was done to me that was very oppressive 1825 01:11:53,270 --> 01:11:50,000 and done by 1826 01:11:59,350 --> 01:11:56,550 there are 48 boxes of 448 boxes of files 1827 01:12:03,510 --> 01:11:59,360 i'm sure they're long gone by now 1828 01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:03,520 that the judge in the mk ultra case 1829 01:12:10,390 --> 01:12:07,360 ruled that the government could withhold 1830 01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:10,400 because they contained material 1831 01:12:16,870 --> 01:12:13,040 that that should remain classified i 1832 01:12:23,270 --> 01:12:20,390 what was done to children if anything 1833 01:12:24,550 --> 01:12:23,280 is in those files but when you open a 1834 01:12:27,990 --> 01:12:24,560 door like that 1835 01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:28,000 into a child's 1836 01:12:39,270 --> 01:12:35,600 you can never close that door again 1837 01:12:40,870 --> 01:12:39,280 nor can you control what comes through 1838 01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:40,880 it 1839 01:12:46,050 --> 01:12:43,920 and my life has been an enormous 1840 01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:46,060 battle to 1841 01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:47,520 [Music] 1842 01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:51,840 stand by the good and to 1843 01:12:59,030 --> 01:12:55,760 in identify myself with the light 1844 01:13:02,070 --> 01:12:59,040 and there has i have lived out 1845 01:13:05,910 --> 01:13:02,080 this battle and i'm not going to say 1846 01:13:09,270 --> 01:13:05,920 that it's superstition because it's not 1847 01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:09,280 it's real at the same time 1848 01:13:16,149 --> 01:13:12,400 demonizing things and and and and 1849 01:13:19,189 --> 01:13:16,159 trying to organize it 1850 01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:19,199 at our level is trying is 1851 01:13:23,350 --> 01:13:21,920 you end up seeing your own reflection in 1852 01:13:25,590 --> 01:13:23,360 the toe of the boot 1853 01:13:27,510 --> 01:13:25,600 uh maybe maybe not i mean here let me 1854 01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:27,520 let me uh kind of put a 1855 01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:31,440 put a little bow on that because when 1856 01:13:35,189 --> 01:13:33,280 you're nice enough to have me on your 1857 01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:35,199 show to talk about 1858 01:13:39,030 --> 01:13:38,159 uh my book that investigates this why 1859 01:13:40,470 --> 01:13:39,040 evil matters 1860 01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:40,480 the one thing i've found out in doing 1861 01:13:44,390 --> 01:13:42,640 that and i'll remind you this is that 1862 01:13:46,070 --> 01:13:44,400 the work of a clinical psychologist in 1863 01:13:47,430 --> 01:13:46,080 grand rapids michigan who really kind of 1864 01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:47,440 closed the loop on this 1865 01:13:50,790 --> 01:13:48,640 and what he said is it's about 1866 01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:50,800 dissociative identity disorder and when 1867 01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:52,320 we talked about this you were all over 1868 01:13:57,110 --> 01:13:54,400 it you understood immediately 1869 01:13:57,510 --> 01:13:57,120 that what they were attempting to do 1870 01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:57,520 with 1871 01:14:00,550 --> 01:13:59,280 mk ultra and the documents that are 1872 01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,560 released in canada are 1873 01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:02,640 definitely point to children definitely 1874 01:14:07,270 --> 01:14:04,560 definitely point to children 1875 01:14:08,390 --> 01:14:07,280 documents at harvard blumenthal and i 1876 01:14:09,910 --> 01:14:08,400 are going to have a really interesting 1877 01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:09,920 talk about that at john mack 1878 01:14:13,590 --> 01:14:11,679 because there were mk projects going on 1879 01:14:17,590 --> 01:14:13,600 at harvard all over the place you know 1880 01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:17,600 but back to uh this disassociative 1881 01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:21,280 identity disorder which is the breaking 1882 01:14:24,550 --> 01:14:23,920 right you're cracking open to use your 1883 01:14:27,270 --> 01:14:24,560 term you know 1884 01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:27,280 you're cracking somebody open they were 1885 01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:28,239 trying to 1886 01:14:32,630 --> 01:14:30,400 it looks like this is conjecture but 1887 01:14:35,350 --> 01:14:32,640 it's informed conjecture 1888 01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:35,360 that they were attempting to do that in 1889 01:14:41,030 --> 01:14:35,760 an 1890 01:14:43,030 --> 01:14:41,040 could weaponize it 1891 01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:43,040 so in the same way that your implant if 1892 01:14:47,189 --> 01:14:44,800 we're supposed to understand that 1893 01:14:48,550 --> 01:14:47,199 as you describe it they said hey here's 1894 01:14:51,189 --> 01:14:48,560 another way 1895 01:14:52,149 --> 01:14:51,199 just take a two-year-old and scare the 1896 01:14:54,310 --> 01:14:52,159 crap out of them 1897 01:14:56,550 --> 01:14:54,320 and create this incredible trauma and 1898 01:14:58,070 --> 01:14:56,560 boom they'll be outside of their body 1899 01:15:00,310 --> 01:14:58,080 now once they're outside of their body 1900 01:15:00,709 --> 01:15:00,320 let's start seeing what we might do with 1901 01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:00,719 that 1902 01:15:04,470 --> 01:15:02,800 and we have to because we have to know 1903 01:15:05,270 --> 01:15:04,480 because if we don't get them they'll get 1904 01:15:08,229 --> 01:15:05,280 us kind of 1905 01:15:10,149 --> 01:15:08,239 stuff to which you said be careful with 1906 01:15:12,310 --> 01:15:10,159 your black magic fly paper 1907 01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:12,320 because you're never going to get your 1908 01:15:15,750 --> 01:15:13,520 hands off of it 1909 01:15:17,910 --> 01:15:15,760 which i agree with absolutely true i've 1910 01:15:19,990 --> 01:15:17,920 seen that happen to many people 1911 01:15:22,790 --> 01:15:20,000 you get you once you once you start 1912 01:15:26,149 --> 01:15:22,800 playing with the dark side 1913 01:15:26,470 --> 01:15:26,159 i know people who have just gotten lost 1914 01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:26,480 in 1915 01:15:35,910 --> 01:15:30,960 uh black magic and stuff like that 1916 01:15:39,430 --> 01:15:38,630 we don't know what we're doing in these 1917 01:15:42,950 --> 01:15:39,440 areas 1918 01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:42,960 and there is something there certainly 1919 01:15:49,590 --> 01:15:46,080 i i'm i'm not sure that you can we 1920 01:15:52,630 --> 01:15:49,600 we tend to characterize it as good and 1921 01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:52,640 evil but i'm not sure it sees itself 1922 01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:54,320 that way at all 1923 01:15:57,350 --> 01:15:55,920 again if let me interject because i 1924 01:15:59,189 --> 01:15:57,360 think that's a contradiction 1925 01:16:01,030 --> 01:15:59,199 with what you said earlier and what you 1926 01:16:01,510 --> 01:16:01,040 said earlier is the part that i agree 1927 01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:01,520 with 1928 01:16:07,189 --> 01:16:04,640 research i've done 1929 01:16:09,030 --> 01:16:07,199 into near-death experience because no 1930 01:16:10,550 --> 01:16:09,040 one comes back from a near-death 1931 01:16:13,510 --> 01:16:10,560 experience and says 1932 01:16:14,229 --> 01:16:13,520 oh you know what aleister crowley is 1933 01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:14,239 right 1934 01:16:17,510 --> 01:16:16,800 do what thou wilt is the way michael 1935 01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:17,520 aquino 1936 01:16:23,430 --> 01:16:20,880 is right i should go molest little kids 1937 01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:23,440 no one comes back you know the number of 1938 01:16:27,590 --> 01:16:24,000 cases 1939 01:16:28,630 --> 01:16:27,600 meticulously reported of near-death 1940 01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:28,640 experiences 1941 01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:31,600 zero zero come back can say that what 1942 01:16:35,990 --> 01:16:32,560 they say is 1943 01:16:38,709 --> 01:16:36,000 there's light there's love there's god 1944 01:16:39,510 --> 01:16:38,719 and we have the choice to move in that 1945 01:16:42,390 --> 01:16:39,520 direction 1946 01:16:43,510 --> 01:16:42,400 and we always have that choice that's 1947 01:16:46,550 --> 01:16:43,520 what i understand 1948 01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:46,560 so i am not i'm not interested 1949 01:16:52,550 --> 01:16:49,920 in engaging in a deep dive 1950 01:16:53,910 --> 01:16:52,560 into the evil or exploring it or 1951 01:16:56,550 --> 01:16:53,920 practicing it 1952 01:16:57,510 --> 01:16:56,560 but i do need to understand it i do need 1953 01:16:59,910 --> 01:16:57,520 to at least 1954 01:17:02,310 --> 01:16:59,920 identify what the playing field is like 1955 01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:02,320 so when i make that choice to 1956 01:17:06,550 --> 01:17:04,880 choose light to choose good i'm better 1957 01:17:08,470 --> 01:17:06,560 informed about what that choice is 1958 01:17:10,070 --> 01:17:08,480 that's my only point 1959 01:17:12,790 --> 01:17:10,080 well let's get back to the boot in the 1960 01:17:15,590 --> 01:17:12,800 neck we are not 1961 01:17:16,149 --> 01:17:15,600 going to be able to understand it what 1962 01:17:19,350 --> 01:17:16,159 we are 1963 01:17:22,790 --> 01:17:19,360 going to be able to do is to understand 1964 01:17:27,750 --> 01:17:22,800 our side of the relationship 1965 01:17:31,189 --> 01:17:27,760 that we can understand and that's 1966 01:17:33,990 --> 01:17:31,199 all about the 1967 01:17:34,390 --> 01:17:34,000 journey toward the good it was the it 1968 01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:34,400 was 1969 01:17:45,750 --> 01:17:38,640 it's been the message of buddha jesus 1970 01:17:53,830 --> 01:17:50,709 it is it is a message that is 1971 01:17:58,070 --> 01:17:53,840 that fills humanity 1972 01:18:01,590 --> 01:17:58,080 it is the human message and embracing 1973 01:18:03,350 --> 01:18:01,600 that is embracing humanity 1974 01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:03,360 be explicit about what that message is 1975 01:18:07,590 --> 01:18:04,560 because you've said it before but i want 1976 01:18:09,830 --> 01:18:07,600 you to say it again if you could 1977 01:18:10,709 --> 01:18:09,840 about compassion about love about 1978 01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:10,719 forgiveness 1979 01:18:14,470 --> 01:18:12,960 even when you even when you are the dog 1980 01:18:16,790 --> 01:18:14,480 with the boot on your neck 1981 01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:16,800 there's only one way out and it's not 1982 01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:18,320 the obvious way 1983 01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:21,120 it's not it's not to fight the boot 1984 01:18:23,669 --> 01:18:21,600 because 1985 01:18:24,709 --> 01:18:23,679 you can't there's something else there 1986 01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:24,719 that you can't see 1987 01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:28,159 and you can't address it is to live 1988 01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:31,360 by love compassion and humility to live 1989 01:18:35,110 --> 01:18:32,159 that way 1990 01:18:36,870 --> 01:18:35,120 that's what changed me my experience of 1991 01:18:40,390 --> 01:18:36,880 the visitors was that 1992 01:18:44,149 --> 01:18:40,400 an absolute effort to 1993 01:18:51,350 --> 01:18:47,750 my relationship to those three things 1994 01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:51,360 to understand where am i when it comes 1995 01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:53,120 to love 1996 01:18:57,270 --> 01:18:56,480 am i living a loving life and what does 1997 01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:57,280 that mean 1998 01:19:01,830 --> 01:18:59,760 in terms of my relationships with the 1999 01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:01,840 people around me the people i know and 2000 01:19:05,830 --> 01:19:03,679 don't know and the friends and the 2001 01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:05,840 enemies and all of that 2002 01:19:12,310 --> 01:19:09,520 uh what does that mean and then 2003 01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:12,320 humility i've said many times the first 2004 01:19:15,030 --> 01:19:14,159 lesson i got from the visitors and the 2005 01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:15,040 first 2006 01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:18,320 indication i had that i was involved 2007 01:19:23,669 --> 01:19:20,320 with somebody who had 2008 01:19:27,270 --> 01:19:23,679 a different viewpoint not 2009 01:19:29,830 --> 01:19:27,280 simply a dark evil terrifying 2010 01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:29,840 um we're going to eat you if we can kind 2011 01:19:34,229 --> 01:19:31,920 of approach 2012 01:19:35,110 --> 01:19:34,239 was the fact that they taught me 2013 01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:35,120 beautifully 2014 01:19:39,910 --> 01:19:37,600 and very brilliantly about the 2015 01:19:42,390 --> 01:19:39,920 importance of humility 2016 01:19:44,229 --> 01:19:42,400 and then i learned about compassion from 2017 01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:44,239 my wife 2018 01:19:48,149 --> 01:19:47,520 not only from the way she lived but from 2019 01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:48,159 what she 2020 01:19:52,870 --> 01:19:50,880 said about it which i think is one of 2021 01:19:53,990 --> 01:19:52,880 the most powerful statements i know in 2022 01:19:57,189 --> 01:19:54,000 my life 2023 01:20:00,390 --> 01:19:57,199 when i asked anne what compassion was 2024 01:20:04,709 --> 01:20:00,400 how to understand it she said simply 2025 01:20:08,310 --> 01:20:04,719 each of us is all we have 2026 01:20:09,750 --> 01:20:08,320 and when you hear that suddenly a door 2027 01:20:13,430 --> 01:20:09,760 opens in you 2028 01:20:17,990 --> 01:20:13,440 at least it did in me and you see 2029 01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:18,000 the others in their vulnerability and 2030 01:20:25,830 --> 01:20:21,760 pain the good the bad and the ugly 2031 01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:25,840 and if you really let that door open 2032 01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,600 you soon find out why it's so hard to be 2033 01:20:36,470 --> 01:20:31,199 compassionate 2034 01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:39,510 the pain of others that is so so 2035 01:20:44,070 --> 01:20:40,560 beautiful 2036 01:20:46,709 --> 01:20:44,080 it is so amazing how that fits and i 2037 01:20:50,629 --> 01:20:46,719 don't know if you're aware of this 2038 01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:50,639 but that is exactly the message 2039 01:20:58,229 --> 01:20:54,480 from the near-death experience is that 2040 01:21:00,709 --> 01:20:58,239 you will stand in judgment of yourself 2041 01:21:02,390 --> 01:21:00,719 and the most difficult thing about that 2042 01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:02,400 judgment will be you will be 2043 01:21:06,550 --> 01:21:06,239 fully compassionate fully compassionate 2044 01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:06,560 of 2045 01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:10,159 all you've ever done all you've ever 2046 01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:13,040 thought and it's not anyone imposing 2047 01:21:17,270 --> 01:21:14,080 that on you 2048 01:21:20,310 --> 01:21:17,280 it just becomes your reality that's 2049 01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:20,320 it man was that's why this 2050 01:21:27,110 --> 01:21:23,360 that that's what and i mean ann 2051 01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:27,120 had such extraordinary and has such 2052 01:21:32,229 --> 01:21:29,280 extraordinary insight 2053 01:21:32,870 --> 01:21:32,239 i also want you to to go back and speak 2054 01:21:36,390 --> 01:21:32,880 some more 2055 01:21:38,550 --> 01:21:36,400 if you would about humility 2056 01:21:40,550 --> 01:21:38,560 because i think that's a tricky a tricky 2057 01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:40,560 term especially 2058 01:21:47,270 --> 01:21:44,560 in our times especially among men 2059 01:21:48,390 --> 01:21:47,280 especially among men who are kind of 2060 01:21:51,830 --> 01:21:48,400 geared to 2061 01:21:53,189 --> 01:21:51,840 achieve you've achieved a lot in your 2062 01:21:55,590 --> 01:21:53,199 life a lot of 2063 01:21:57,110 --> 01:21:55,600 success with the literary 2064 01:21:58,550 --> 01:21:57,120 accomplishments with media 2065 01:22:02,550 --> 01:21:58,560 accomplishments 2066 01:22:04,310 --> 01:22:02,560 that you know make make humility 2067 01:22:05,910 --> 01:22:04,320 i'm sure at different times in your life 2068 01:22:08,790 --> 01:22:05,920 difficult what speak 2069 01:22:09,110 --> 01:22:08,800 more about humility you know it has to 2070 01:22:13,030 --> 01:22:09,120 be 2071 01:22:15,270 --> 01:22:13,040 understood that we're all equal 2072 01:22:18,470 --> 01:22:15,280 that the man or the woman with great 2073 01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:21,910 and the the one who appears 2074 01:22:25,590 --> 01:22:23,679 to have few or even negative 2075 01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:25,600 accomplishments 2076 01:22:32,550 --> 01:22:28,880 are in the end 2077 01:22:35,669 --> 01:22:32,560 equal i've been out of my body 2078 01:22:39,510 --> 01:22:35,679 in a couple of instances 2079 01:22:42,070 --> 01:22:39,520 when i was in the presence of 2080 01:22:43,669 --> 01:22:42,080 large numbers of other people i'm not 2081 01:22:46,550 --> 01:22:43,679 going to get it they were i was not 2082 01:22:47,350 --> 01:22:46,560 witnessed in these cases so i don't talk 2083 01:22:50,550 --> 01:22:47,360 about them 2084 01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:50,560 much but i will say this when you're 2085 01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:53,520 in that state and you're with you're in 2086 01:22:56,950 --> 01:22:54,159 a group of 2087 01:22:59,189 --> 01:22:56,960 a large group of people quite an 2088 01:23:02,470 --> 01:22:59,199 astonishing thing happens 2089 01:23:04,709 --> 01:23:02,480 they all look both utterly and 2090 01:23:08,950 --> 01:23:04,719 completely unique 2091 01:23:12,629 --> 01:23:08,960 and exactly the same at the same time 2092 01:23:14,550 --> 01:23:12,639 and when you live that 2093 01:23:16,310 --> 01:23:14,560 you find yourself living in a state of 2094 01:23:19,270 --> 01:23:16,320 humility 2095 01:23:20,070 --> 01:23:19,280 that's quite quite beautiful you know i 2096 01:23:22,550 --> 01:23:20,080 don't know how 2097 01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:22,560 much we accomplished in terms of maybe 2098 01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:24,719 what you want to talk about in terms of 2099 01:23:30,629 --> 01:23:28,080 jesus a new vision but 2100 01:23:32,629 --> 01:23:30,639 i accomplished what i wanted that was 2101 01:23:35,510 --> 01:23:32,639 the kind of dialogue i wanted 2102 01:23:36,229 --> 01:23:35,520 make sure to check your show so good 2103 01:23:40,390 --> 01:23:36,239 that's 2104 01:23:43,590 --> 01:23:40,400 it is my show and i do honor my right 2105 01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,600 to do what the hell i want annoying 2106 01:23:48,149 --> 01:23:46,159 because i don't have a paywall i don't 2107 01:23:50,390 --> 01:23:48,159 have advertisers i never 2108 01:23:51,910 --> 01:23:50,400 have and i never will because it doesn't 2109 01:23:54,629 --> 01:23:51,920 cost that much money 2110 01:23:55,910 --> 01:23:54,639 to run a podcast and i got all the money 2111 01:23:59,590 --> 01:23:55,920 i need anyway 2112 01:24:02,870 --> 01:23:59,600 so i like trying to expand 2113 01:24:05,669 --> 01:24:02,880 my understanding of who i am 2114 01:24:07,830 --> 01:24:05,679 and why i'm here and that's why i am 2115 01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:07,840 continuously no matter how much i piss 2116 01:24:12,709 --> 01:24:09,040 you off 2117 01:24:16,229 --> 01:24:12,719 i am continually open to and just 2118 01:24:19,189 --> 01:24:16,239 so thankful for who you are 2119 01:24:20,470 --> 01:24:19,199 and what you bring and the life that 2120 01:24:22,629 --> 01:24:20,480 you've lived 2121 01:24:23,669 --> 01:24:22,639 and the contributions you've made you 2122 01:24:27,030 --> 01:24:23,679 are just an 2123 01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:27,040 amazing amazing spiritual 2124 01:24:31,830 --> 01:24:30,400 being and communicator and i i so honor 2125 01:24:33,990 --> 01:24:31,840 what you've done 2126 01:24:35,510 --> 01:24:34,000 uh what you continue to do because you 2127 01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:35,520 know sometimes people 2128 01:24:41,669 --> 01:24:38,800 you know whitley is not going anywhere 2129 01:24:42,709 --> 01:24:41,679 he's still cranking out stuff you know 2130 01:24:47,110 --> 01:24:42,719 go to 2131 01:24:50,310 --> 01:24:47,120 dreamland 2132 01:24:50,709 --> 01:24:50,320 listen to that amazing podcast i think i 2133 01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:50,719 just 2134 01:24:53,750 --> 01:24:52,800 i mentioned earlier in the show the 2135 01:24:57,590 --> 01:24:53,760 interview 2136 01:25:00,550 --> 01:24:57,600 with ralph blumenthal is phenomenal 2137 01:25:01,590 --> 01:25:00,560 you cannot read ralph's book and not 2138 01:25:03,990 --> 01:25:01,600 listen 2139 01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:04,000 to whitley's interview with them the two 2140 01:25:08,149 --> 01:25:04,960 would be 2141 01:25:10,310 --> 01:25:08,159 you there they should be he should be 2142 01:25:12,709 --> 01:25:10,320 sending those out on mp3 with it because 2143 01:25:15,030 --> 01:25:12,719 one doesn't even fully tell the story 2144 01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:15,040 without the other because whitley is so 2145 01:25:19,510 --> 01:25:15,920 central 2146 01:25:21,510 --> 01:25:19,520 to so much of this experience that we're 2147 01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:21,520 living as we're unfolding into this 2148 01:25:27,510 --> 01:25:23,760 larger reality that is 2149 01:25:29,669 --> 01:25:27,520 you know this e.t ufo thing whitley 2150 01:25:30,790 --> 01:25:29,679 phenomenal that you've joined me and i i 2151 01:25:33,750 --> 01:25:30,800 thank you so much 2152 01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:33,760 i'm sorry i i put you on tilt but i'm 2153 01:25:36,550 --> 01:25:35,040 not going to apologize really 2154 01:25:39,110 --> 01:25:36,560 all right i'm sorry i've been on tilt a 2155 01:25:42,310 --> 01:25:39,120 few times in my life 2156 01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:42,320 i bet but i i i i 2157 01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:44,719 would like at some point to discuss my 2158 01:25:47,910 --> 01:25:47,040 book which we did not do 2159 01:25:49,910 --> 01:25:47,920 well you're going to have to find 2160 01:25:51,910 --> 01:25:49,920 somebody else to do that i guess because 2161 01:25:53,990 --> 01:25:51,920 i can't i think so yeah because i 2162 01:25:56,070 --> 01:25:54,000 because josephus is a is a very 2163 01:25:57,669 --> 01:25:56,080 peripheral aspect of the book 2164 01:25:59,270 --> 01:25:57,679 but i don't want to let's not go back 2165 01:25:59,830 --> 01:25:59,280 there we've been we've been there we've 2166 01:26:03,110 --> 01:25:59,840 done that 2167 01:26:03,750 --> 01:26:03,120 it's over well there's actually on your 2168 01:26:06,709 --> 01:26:03,760 show 2169 01:26:07,669 --> 01:26:06,719 see there there's actually uh which you 2170 01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:07,679 don't 2171 01:26:14,310 --> 01:26:11,040 there's 2172 01:26:16,870 --> 01:26:14,320 of 2173 01:26:18,070 --> 01:26:16,880 connection between what you're saying 2174 01:26:19,270 --> 01:26:18,080 and what i'm saying 2175 01:26:21,750 --> 01:26:19,280 i mean what you're saying about 2176 01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:21,760 constantine what you're saying about the 2177 01:26:26,070 --> 01:26:22,800 romans 2178 01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:26,080 co-opting the religion is is 2179 01:26:29,750 --> 01:26:28,159 central to what i'm saying you're just 2180 01:26:31,189 --> 01:26:29,760 taking in a slightly different direction 2181 01:26:33,110 --> 01:26:31,199 and a lot of times that's how it is when 2182 01:26:36,310 --> 01:26:33,120 people talk about even 2183 01:26:37,110 --> 01:26:36,320 with people are in sync the differences 2184 01:26:39,430 --> 01:26:37,120 are what get 2185 01:26:41,350 --> 01:26:39,440 kind of exaggerated like the message of 2186 01:26:43,430 --> 01:26:41,360 jesus love everyone and tell the truth 2187 01:26:45,110 --> 01:26:43,440 the message of jesus about humility and 2188 01:26:46,870 --> 01:26:45,120 compassion about the boot 2189 01:26:47,990 --> 01:26:46,880 i mean that's all we really don't indeed 2190 01:26:49,430 --> 01:26:48,000 talk about anything more than that 2191 01:26:51,030 --> 01:26:49,440 that's the most important part 2192 01:26:53,270 --> 01:26:51,040 and then the fact that the romans tried 2193 01:26:55,270 --> 01:26:53,280 to co-opt that in an evil way 2194 01:26:56,470 --> 01:26:55,280 we are essentially we're in agreement on 2195 01:26:59,510 --> 01:26:56,480 those important things but it isn't 2196 01:27:01,750 --> 01:26:59,520 going to sound like that and that's okay 2197 01:27:05,110 --> 01:27:01,760 all right thank you very much for having 2198 01:27:08,390 --> 01:27:05,120 me on 2199 01:27:10,950 --> 01:27:08,400 you are very welcome thank you 2200 01:27:11,510 --> 01:27:10,960 we'll we'll do it again sometime soon 2201 01:27:14,390 --> 01:27:11,520 okay 2202 01:27:16,149 --> 01:27:14,400 take care whitley bye thanks again to 2203 01:27:18,149 --> 01:27:16,159 whitney streeber for joining me today on 2204 01:27:18,709 --> 01:27:18,159 skeptico you know i'm hesitant to even 2205 01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:18,719 tee up 2206 01:27:22,470 --> 01:27:20,400 a question from this interview because i 2207 01:27:25,590 --> 01:27:22,480 don't know 2208 01:27:27,590 --> 01:27:25,600 this 2209 01:27:29,110 --> 01:27:27,600 but you know if i was gonna tee up a 2210 01:27:30,950 --> 01:27:29,120 question it would be a long lines what i 2211 01:27:32,390 --> 01:27:30,960 was talking about at the beginning 2212 01:27:34,070 --> 01:27:32,400 do you see the connection between the 2213 01:27:36,870 --> 01:27:34,080 co-opting of christianity 2214 01:27:38,790 --> 01:27:36,880 and the false flag fail of the roman 2215 01:27:40,709 --> 01:27:38,800 empire 2216 01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:40,719 or do you think well do you think 2217 01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:42,400 otherwise let me know 2218 01:27:46,950 --> 01:27:44,480 love to hear your thoughts got a lot